Eliphaz
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QUESTION: Can a medium-sized character wield (and reload) a large-sized light crossbow?
Everyone knows about the cumulative –2 penalty on attack rolls for inappropriately sized weapons, but crossbows have added penalties that make it questionable whether it's possible at all.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
The problem is that crossbows aren't categorized as "Light", "One-handed", or "Two-handed" in the traditional sense. We're instead given this text:
Normally, operating a light crossbow requires two hands. However, you can shoot, but not load, a light crossbow with one hand at a –2 penalty on attack rolls. You can shoot a light crossbow with each hand, but you take a penalty on attack rolls as if attacking with two light weapons. This penalty is cumulative with the penalty for one-handed firing.
The text I bolded seems to imply that light crossbows are indeed "Light Weapons" as far as handedness is concerned. The text for heavy crossbows similarly treats them as "One-handed Weapons".
But is that enough to go off of? And what about reloading?
Possible answers seem to include:
1) No/No, a medium-sized character cannot wield (or reload) a large-sized light crossbow at all,
2) Yes/No, a medium-sized character could wield (but not reload) a large-sized light crossbow,
3) Yes/Yes, a medium-sized character could wield (and reload) a large-sized light crossbow...
3a) ...by taking a -2 attack penalty for wielding an inappropriately sized weapon,
3b) ...by taking a -4 attack penalty for wielding an inappropriately sized weapon that has an additional penalty when wielded inappropriately.
I know this gets asked a lot. It's my hope that by putting everything in one place we can finally get this question answered.
| Archaeik |
Given the extra load time for a ballista, it seems there may be implicit rules about increased load time for crossbows sized larger than you. This adds a wrinkle to offering a simple yes/no.
On the surface, you should be able to shoot them one handed --if only during TWF, since it's an inference to apply that rule outside of TWF, keeping in mind that "as if" indicates the item does not innately possess the referenced quality.
Eliphaz
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That's a really good point I had never considered before. If we extrapolate the rules for reloading a Ballista down a couple sizes they seem to line up with the Heavy Crossbow. Perhaps that same progression can be attributed to the Light Crossbow, in a way akin to the damage progression for size increases.
Thought experiment #1:
A medium-sized Heavy Crossbow takes a full round action to reload.
A huge-sized Heavy Crossbow takes 2 full round actions to reload.
Ergo, a large-sized Heavy Crossbow takes one and a half full actions to reload (with the "half" being either a standard or a move, not sure).
Thought experiment #2:
A medium-sized Light Crossbow takes a move action to reload.
A large-sized Light Crossbow takes a full round action to reload.
A huge-sized Light Crossbow takes one and a half full round actions to reload (with the "half" being either a standard or a move, not sure).
Having Rapid Reload moves this down one "half".
Sound good?
| Archaeik |
"Close enough"?
A couple of things:
I'd likely adjudicate the increase for what you are calling "half" as a standard action for the heavy xbow and a move for the light xbow.
Further, in the case of the light xbow, it makes more sense to me to exclusively increment with move actions such that you can always fire twice every 3 rounds.
But, such increases may actually be quantized in full-round increments(rounded down), who is to say?
Given that we only have rules for a single example of rules for a "creature smaller than large" using an oversized xbow, it's a bit sketchy to extrapolate anything, it just seems like a possibility.
Notice how a Large creature does not incur a penalty for reloading the Huge weapon?
It's also possible that winching the ballista is only viable for smaller creatures because it's mounted (most of them certainly couldn't wield it). Also note it's still 2 full round actions for a Fine creature to reload, even if that isn't logical (weight/bulk of the ammunition notwithstanding).
Lastly, given that the light xbow is 'lever action', it may make less sense to increase the load time in this case. I could see it going either way.