| Gaekub |
Hi, I'm looking for some advice on a flurrying build with a revolver via Crusader's Flurry. The current game I'm playing in has a homebrew god of machinists that has revolvers as his favored weapon. Advanced firearms exist, but are still considered exotic weapons.
I've mostly settled on Sacred Fist Warpriest as the main class of the build, providing both the flurry and the channel energy. The main thing I'm looking for is advice on what dips are worth it. I have ideas for three dips, but I'm open to more suggestions.
1) 3 Levels of trench fighter for dex to damage with firearms. This seems like an obvious choice, but after looking at the static damage bonuses warpriests can get from spells and such, I'm not sure the loss of 3 levels of Warpriest progression is worth it.
2) 1 Level of Crusader Cleric would get me proficiency and weapon focus in revolver, which would save me two feats for the price of a level.
3) 5 Levels of gunslinger for proficiency, gunsmithing and dex to damage. I really don't think this will end up being worth it, but if I can't make ammo I'll need to figure out an alternate source.
As a note, the god is mostly an orc god, so I'm thinking I'll probably go with a half-orc. Any advice would be appreciated!
Purple Dragon Knight
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If you want a Crusader with a gun, just use a pepperbox.
You don't even need the Exotic Weapon Proficiency as you'll be rolling against touch AC, so you can afford the -4 to hit... if you give your guy a Dex of at least 14 hitting won't be an issue. And you just need to shoot that gun when you're not casting a spell or smacking someone with your fists anyhow...
Purple Dragon Knight
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you can be that guy, basically... :)
Effectively, a pepperbox is a great option for anyone that's not a gunslinger, at close range (20ft or less), since you can shoot up to 6 times vs. Touch AC without the need for reloading. So that sacred priest / warpriest you mentioned has great melee capacity, and when he's not within 5-foot step reach of someone and he doesn't want to cast a spell (or when you're being attacked by annoying flying creatures you can't reach), he can shoot that pepperbox for as many iterative attacks he has. If he rolls 20, bonus. I'd give a pepperbox even to a low-level wizard, if cost is not an issue, as they are often tapped for spells.
Note that this tactic is just good at close range (20 feet or less). Anything further than that you should switch to crossbow or other long range weapon, if you have access to them. Since you're not going to roll against touch AC for these, this should be your last resort option. So melee/spells first, pepperbox second, crossbow last.
| haremlord |
Depending on your levels, you can do this with 3 levels of Weapon Master, and 6 levels of Sohei Monk. If you are going Gestalt, that's easy, but if you are doing normal advancement, it could take a while.
Fun thing about this build you can still benefit from Rapid Reload and you can use advanced firearms since it won't rely on being a deity's favorite weapon.
| Gaekub |
Depending on your levels, you can do this with 3 levels of Weapon Master, and 6 levels of Sohei Monk. If you are going Gestalt, that's easy, but if you are doing normal advancement, it could take a while.
Fun thing about this build you can still benefit from Rapid Reload and you can use advanced firearms since it won't rely on being a deity's favorite weapon.
Yeah, I'd considered that, but it's a little high level for the current game. I'll probably keep it up my sleeve for a gestalt game, since I have a GM who's a big fan of Gestalt.
Not requiring a god's favored weapon opens up a lot of options too. Musket flurry with 3 levels of musket master, or if advanced firearms are available, flurrying with a double barreled shotgun is a pretty cool image.
| haremlord |
haremlord wrote:Depending on your levels, you can do this with 3 levels of Weapon Master, and 6 levels of Sohei Monk. If you are going Gestalt, that's easy, but if you are doing normal advancement, it could take a while.
Fun thing about this build you can still benefit from Rapid Reload and you can use advanced firearms since it won't rely on being a deity's favorite weapon.
Yeah, I'd considered that, but it's a little high level for the current game. I'll probably keep it up my sleeve for a gestalt game, since I have a GM who's a big fan of Gestalt.
Not requiring a god's favored weapon opens up a lot of options too. Musket flurry with 3 levels of musket master, or if advanced firearms are available, flurrying with a double barreled shotgun is a pretty cool image.
Point of clarification. I said "you can benefit from rapid reload" but what I MEANT was "you can benefit from rapid SHOT" (you can't flurry and use rapid shot as a zen archer, but there is no such restriction for a sohei...)
That said, you can still benefit from rapid reload because normally a one-handed firearm reloads as a move action (and a two-handed firearm as a standard) with Rapid Reload, but advanced firearms drops that to a free action for either...
So I accidentally said something accurate, but still not what I meant to say :D
| cnetarian |
The normal 'dip' is five levels of gunslinger for DEX to damage, which even a warpriest would find useful. If not using advanced firearms (revolver is advanced) then amateur gunslinger is pretty essential for non-gunslingers, need the quick clear deed. If using 2H firearms then there is no sure way around 3 levels of Musket Master and using a musket to get free action reloading, a GM ruling could permit free action reloading of an advanced 2H firearms either through rapid reload or metal alchemical cartridges (the rules for reloading advanced firearms are incomplete and the rapid reload feat actually slows down the reload speed of advanced firearms).
| haremlord |
The normal 'dip' is five levels of gunslinger for DEX to damage, which even a warpriest would find useful. If not using advanced firearms (revolver is advanced) then amateur gunslinger is pretty essential for non-gunslingers, need the quick clear deed. If using 2H firearms then there is no sure way around 3 levels of Musket Master and using a musket to get free action reloading, a GM ruling could permit free action reloading of an advanced 2H firearms either through rapid reload or metal alchemical cartridges (the rules for reloading advanced firearms are incomplete and the rapid reload feat actually slows down the reload speed of advanced firearms).
Huh... I just assumed that it would go from move to free, but I see your point.
You can also dip 3 levels of trench fighter to get dex to damage with a firearm (just found out about that archetype today :D ).
| Gaekub |
The normal 'dip' is five levels of gunslinger for DEX to damage, which even a warpriest would find useful. If not using advanced firearms (revolver is advanced) then amateur gunslinger is pretty essential for non-gunslingers, need the quick clear deed. If using 2H firearms then there is no sure way around 3 levels of Musket Master and using a musket to get free action reloading, a GM ruling could permit free action reloading of an advanced 2H firearms either through rapid reload or metal alchemical cartridges (the rules for reloading advanced firearms are incomplete and the rapid reload feat actually slows down the reload speed of advanced firearms).
Actually, there was a recent FAQ that changed that. Rapid Reload now reduces reloading advanced firearms to a free action.
Purple Dragon Knight
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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:Maybe he wants to pistol whip flurry? :DThe prereqs for Crusader's Flurry is "Weapon Focus with your deity’s favored melee weapon."
So this doesn't work with guns or any other ranged weapon.
i tried that before for coolness but it's impossible both because pistol whip is not finessable and takes up a standard and grit point. Pistol whip can make a guy prone so if you're high str it's cool
| Gaekub |
Depending on your levels, you can do this with 3 levels of Weapon Master, and 6 levels of Sohei Monk. If you are going Gestalt, that's easy, but if you are doing normal advancement, it could take a while.
Fun thing about this build you can still benefit from Rapid Reload and you can use advanced firearms since it won't rely on being a deity's favorite weapon.
Oh hey! New discovery: Check out the Weapon Expert Rogue. Gets "weapon training as the fighter class feature" at level 1. You lose sneak attack for it, and you're losing a BAB, but I think it's worth it.
EDIT: Wait, it's third party. Still a good find if your GM allows third party archetypes, but disappointing. Well, at least that explains why I'd never seen it before.