Maneuver Master Using Weapons?


Rules Questions


Can I use Flurry of Maneuvers while holding a weapon? The text is very unclear. I don't see why not, so my interpretation is yes... but I thought I'd ask.

Edit: Sorry about the repeats guys. Very random and Im not positive as to why that happened.... Just finished deleting them all.


It doesn't say you cannot, so it is only restricted by any other possible restrictions that would prevent you from making a maneuver with a weapon.

Out of curiosity, why do you think the text is unclear?


1. Flurry of blows is very restrictive. If flurry of maneuvers did not have the unarmed restriction, it seems like they should mention it, as it is much more powerful with weapons(reach, potentially bonuses, etc).

2. Quote "...checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry."

This is the biggest point of confusion for me. I find that confusing because it makes it seem like the flurries are equivocal, which would by extension mean that the unarmed restriction applies to both. If it said "a flurry of maneuvers" instead "a flurry" it would be much more clear.

3. The unarmed restriction is further implied, just a little, by the continued presence of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.

4. Better safe than sorry. This is a rule I've adopted from PFS. I do extensive research before making ANY character to make sure that I understand EVERY rule, that EVERY ability works the way I think it does, and that everything I use is legal.

I make threads like this one all the time. I usually already know the answers, but if there is any ambiguity I don't like to assume.


I would say that the ability does exactly as it says it does.

Quote:

At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.

At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks.

At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks.

This ability replaces flurry of blows.

Especially because of this. Since it replaces flurry of blows, and flurry of blows is the feature that has the text "These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability)." Flurry of maneuvers lacks this wording.

Flurry of maneuvers is actually more restricting, since flurry of blows actually allows you to make maneuvers anyway, and flurry of maneuvers can't make regular damaging attacks. This could by why you aren't restricted by weapon type.

It's quite possible that it is RAI that flurry of maneuvers is limited to monk weaponry (be it kama or fist), but by strict RAW, you may use any weapon you so desire with flurry of maneuvers.

Quote:
3. The unarmed restriction is further implied, just a little, by the continued presence of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.

Just wanted to quip here: remember that not every build utilizes every feature of a class. For example, a dervish dance magus does not utilize his medium and heavy armor proficiency. Similarly, a weapon specialist maneuver master wouldn't really utilize the improved unarmed strike feat.

Grand Lodge

Also note that Flurry of Maneuvers does not go away if the Monk wears armor. That is a restriction on Flurry of Blows, only.

Improved Unarmed Strike is part of the Archetype mostly to fit the Monk style, as well as to fill in Pre-reqs for other things (Improved Grapple, for instance).

Flurry of Maneuver only does what it says it does, and only has restrictions when it says it does. The only thing that would have changed that would have been the ability 'altering' Flurry of Blows, but it instead replaces it.

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