The zealot has to spend talents to get full access to all of its spellcasting. Flavor reasons aside, I don't see one talent that compares with spells. I think Paizo should just go ahead and give the Zealot the spells, and create new talents or up the usefulness of the other talents.
However if I was reading too fast and overlooked something let me know.
I think it is interesting that you can choose to delay or stop the spellcasting progression without giving up caster levels or multiclassing.
The real problem is that the Zealot Talents aren't that interesting compared to the other specializations. They basically get the Inquisitor class features and little more
I think it is interesting that you can choose to delay or stop the spellcasting progression without giving up caster levels or multiclassing.
The real problem is that the Zealot Talents aren't that interesting compared to the other specializations. They basically get the Inquisitor class features and little more
I noticed that also. I think more interesting talents need to be made to avoid cookie cutter zealot builds.
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It needs a little something unique. Everything else is okay mostly due to having dual identities, it isn't too bad.
I mean if we are going the Zealot way, shouldn't we include the classic type of Heroes damned by the nine hells, forced to be an agent of Hell (Hellfire, Black flames,Animated Chains, Nightmare mounts etc...)
Funny enough this type of divine vigilante is fairly popular (Spawn, Ghost Rider).
Again, of course like many playtest, don't know about what kind of archetype, we would be getting, hopefully they would consider it.
If a Zealot worships a deity and takes a domain, it should be a deity suited for both his identities, right?
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I think it is interesting that you can choose to delay or stop the spellcasting progression without giving up caster levels or multiclassing.
The real problem is that the Zealot Talents aren't that interesting compared to the other specializations. They basically get the Inquisitor class features and little more
But the Warpriest and the Inquistor get full caster progression and they don't need to waste half of their class features just to maintain it...
I think the hard part with divine casters (and to a lesser extend arcane casters) is that pretty much all of the divine themes that you can have for a class currently exist in one of the already available classes. you have a zealous protector of nature (druid), someone who calls down powerful miracles of the gods (cleric), a holy knight (paladin), a hunter of heresy and infiltrators of the church(inquisitor), a living weapon who uses divine power to wage war (warpriest), a character who bargains with spirits for power (shaman), and someone cursed with the burden of divine power who has learned to harness that power free from the strictures of the worship of the gods (oracle).
What I really think they should do with the zealot (and for that matter the warlock) in terms of spellcasting ability is to let them draw on any arcane (for warlock) or divine (for zealot) list; i.e. zealots would be able to draw on the druid, shaman, cleric, paladin, and inquisitor lists, while the warlock would be able to draw on the sorcerer/wizard, bard, witch, magus, and summoner lists. this would allow them both to have casting that would represent a hedge wizard/lay priest style of casting, and still have a large variety of options to draw from. Plus, it would give them a niche to fill that seems to be lacking, mechanically speaking. Give them the rider that they can use the spell at whatever level is the lowest level for any of those classes (ala the hunter) and you'd have an effective lay priest.
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This is really only true because Paizo is so deadest that Divine Caster's flavor must be one way and one way only. Really, if you dropped the Cleric must worship a Deity garbage, there is really little reason to have the Oracle, from a flavor sense, and the two classes could really be combined into one.
Druid and Cleric/Paladin/Warpriest/Inquisitor/Zealot and most Oracles have next to nothing in common.
It's always been an issue that Clerics (and other classes like Fighter and Paladin) really get screwed when it comes to skill points, but if the Cleric would get 4+Int like so many people ask for, it really starts to allow for the Class to fit a lot better into different niches that only really exist because Paizo says they should.
Now, on the other hand, they seem perfectly fine with a hands-off-the-flavor sort of deal with Arcane classes, making it a lot easier to do what you want and for the rules to follow the crunch.
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I think the hard part with divine casters (and to a lesser extend arcane casters) is that pretty much all of the divine themes that you can have for a class currently exist in one of the already available classes. you have a zealous protector of nature (druid), someone who calls down powerful miracles of the gods (cleric), a holy knight (paladin), a hunter of heresy and infiltrators of the church(inquisitor), a living weapon who uses divine power to wage war (warpriest), a character who bargains with spirits for power (shaman), and someone cursed with the burden of divine power who has learned to harness that power free from the strictures of the worship of the gods (oracle).
What I really think they should do with the zealot (and for that matter the warlock) in terms of spellcasting ability is to let them draw on any arcane (for warlock) or divine (for zealot) list; i.e. zealots would be able to draw on the druid, shaman, cleric, paladin, and inquisitor lists, while the warlock would be able to draw on the sorcerer/wizard, bard, witch, magus, and summoner lists. this would allow them both to have casting that would represent a hedge wizard/lay priest style of casting, and still have a large variety of options to draw from. Plus, it would give them a niche to fill that seems to be lacking, mechanically speaking. Give them the rider that they can use the spell at whatever level is the lowest level for any of those classes (ala the hunter) and you'd have an effective lay priest.
the same is true about damn near all classes
You can flavor any class in a dozen ways and they can share their flavors oftenLike what class would you use for a pirate?
Rouge? Swashbuckler? Bard? Ninja? Fighter? Gunslinger? Ranger?
So if the zealot takes Domain, he gets no extra spells to select or spell slots for domain spells, but also no limit on the number of times you can select Domain. I guess that is some consolation, if you really like domain powers. But can a zealot worship an ideal instead of a deity?
Personally I like the idea of the casters being able to draw from all spell lists of their respective types. If they had that ability, THEN I could see potentially having to use up half of their talents for their spell casting ability. Otherwise, as they are now, they are just penalized for being able to do what a other class can do without any really benefit.
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I forgot about Spawn. I think it would be neat if the zealot got traditionally "evil" powers and had to find a way to use them for "good." Instead of using the zealot talents to re-build the inquisitor, let the zealot gain powers that deal with foiling foreign faiths, exploit heretical beliefs, and deal with divine agents, both mortal and supernatural. They should be good at infiltrating and sabotaging religious institutions. Temple raiding, rescuing sacrifices, purloining relics, disrupting rituals. Maybe even a way to counter channel energy and dispel/disrupt divine spellcasting. They should also have a way to preach to and convert the masses. Maybe they hear voices and have visions and premonitions. Maybe emphasis the divination part of divine spellcasting. That can be one way to learn of where to strike at the evildoer. Maybe they can have wards to protect them from harm and allow them to tank? Maybe they can insight anti-religious fervor and make themselves the target of attacks?
EDIT:
Maybe the zealot feels it has to suffer for her sins, so she acts as a "tank," drawing attacks away from her allies and towards herself, but her fervent beliefs protect her from permanent harm, granting her wards (instead of judgments) that can provide a variety of defenses, like temporary hit points (like 1d6+Charisma modifier every round, increasing by 1d6 every few levels); bonuses to saves, AC, CMD; DR; energy resistance; the ability to convert lethal damage to non-lethal damage; fast healing; etc.
Her "sins" could be the diabolic abilities that she struggles to control or contain.
A reverse inquisitor does sound interesting.