does spell combat remove the bonus a Buckler provides?

[Bandw2]

title.

If I cast with the hand that has a buckler equiped does it lose it's bonus?

[Jiggy]

Bandw2 wrote:

title.

If I cast with the hand that has a buckler equiped does it lose it's bonus?

The rules for the buckler in the CRB wrote:

You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn

Was there a reason you thought that the basic buckler rules wouldn't apply normally during Spell Combat?

[Just a Guess]

And in addition to that: Your hand needs to be free for spell-combat. If you use the buckler for defence it is not free. In other words: You lose the shield bonus even if the spell has no somatic component.

[Jiggy]

Just a Guess wrote:

And in addition to that: Your hand needs to be free for spell-combat. If you use the buckler for defence it is not free.

I'd contest that claim. The hand of your buckler arm is free enough to cast spells, retrieve items, pull levers, climb walls, perform grapples, and wield weapons. Claiming that a hand with which you can still do all the things you normally do with a hand is somehow not a "free hand" seems... hard to believe. That's very close to claiming that having a wrist-slot magic item means you don't have a "free" hand for Spell Combat.

[Bandw2]

because Spell combat isn't technically a weapon. Just weighing if I should buy a buckler or not. but my gut tells me you're right.

[kestral287]

It's not the weapon that shuts it down, it's the casting of a spell (unless you put it on your weapon hand, but then you are silly).

Buckler's still an okay investment, simply for first-round defenses-- it's another point of flat-footed AC at the time when you need it most. And it can be okay in situations where, say, you're under fire from ranged attackers and can't Spell Combat back. Good for Hexcrafters too, since they're less likely to be spamming Spell Combat everywhere.

I wouldn't worry about upgrading it until you have lots of money to throw around, but it does work out decently.

[Jiggy]

Bandw2 wrote:

because Spell combat isn't technically a weapon.

What's that got to do with anything?

[Bandw2]

I just actually noticed the little blip about spell casting at the bottom. :P

never played a gish before.

[Jiggy]

Bandw2 wrote:

I just actually noticed the little blip about spell casting at the bottom. :P

You mean the part I quoted all by itself in the very first reply in this thread?

[Just a Guess]

Jiggy wrote:

Just a Guess wrote:

And in addition to that: Your hand needs to be free for spell-combat. If you use the buckler for defence it is not free.

I'd contest that claim. The hand of your buckler arm is free enough to cast spells, retrieve items, pull levers, climb walls, perform grapples, and wield weapons. Claiming that a hand with which you can still do all the things you normally do with a hand is somehow not a "free hand" seems... hard to believe. That's very close to claiming that having a wrist-slot magic item means you don't have a "free" hand for Spell Combat.

Do you really retain your AC bonus while you do those things: retrieve items, pull levers, climb walls, perform grapples, and wield weapons.

Because that'd what I said: If you want to get the AC bonus the hand is not free to do everything you normally can do.

[Jiggy]

Just a Guess wrote:

Do you really retain your AC bonus while you do those things

Some of them, yes. Everything that isn't attacking or casting a somatic spell.

And lest we lose sight of the point, remember that you're talking about needing to "turn off" your buckler for Spell Combat even if that hand doesn't need to do anything (i.e., you cast a spell that doesn't have any somatic components).

The magus can use his buckler arm to pull out a potion and drink it while still retaining his AC bonus, yet you're claiming that an action that doesn't involve that arm at all will require the loss of that same AC bonus.

Because... something something "free hand"?

[Just a Guess]

At least for "climb walls" you are wrong. The climb skill clearly states that you can't use shields while climbing.

climb wrote:

You need both hands free to climb, but you may cling to a wall with one hand while you cast a spell or take some other action that requires only one hand. While climbing, you can’t move to avoid a blow, so you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). You also can’t use a shield while climbing. Anytime you take damage while climbing, make a Climb check against the DC of the slope or wall. Failure means you fall from your current height and sustain the appropriate falling damage.

But you seem to be right RAW with most of the rest.

Edit: This is not meant to gloat that you were only partly right. It's rather that I had to accept that several thing I was sure would take away the shield bonus do not.

[Seranov]

I'm pretty sure you're not even allowed to use a buckler as a Magus?

But on a second look, it just says they have ASF if they use a shield (though Mithral Bucklers can ignore that rule because they have 0% ASF) and it simply says you need to have a free hand. So I guess it's okay? You absolutely would lose the shield bonus to AC if you used Spell Combat, though.

[Jiggy]

Seranov wrote:

You absolutely would lose the shield bonus to AC if you used Spell Combat, though.

Why?