So if I have a +11 BAB, I know that I have to take my +11/+6/+1 iterative attacks in that order.
Is the same true for natural attacks in that I have to attack with those that have the highest bonus first? So if I have a primary attack and a secondary attack, does it have to be primary attack then secondary? Or can the secondary attack be first?
I'm pretty sure that they can be in any order. ^_^
At the very least, I don't think there's anything that says otherwise, nor (I believe) does the iteratives-in-order text apply.
claudekennilol wrote: So if I have a +11 BAB, I know that I have to take my +11/+6/+1 iterative attacks in that order.
Is the same true for natural attacks in that I have to attack with those that have the highest bonus first? So if I have a primary attack and a secondary attack, does it have to be primary attack then secondary? Or can the secondary attack be first?
Natural attacks are not iterative, they can be applied in any order you choose.
Only extra attacks gained by high BAB are subject to BAB ordering. So, not only can you throw in your secondary attacks wherever you want in your sequence, even extra attacks from sources other than high BAB (ie. Haste) can be shuffled in where you please. The only other limitation is that off-hand attacks from ITWF and GTWF are specifically designated as your "second" off-hand and "third" off-hand so they must follow their own order, though this order is agnostic to what you do with your main-hand or other extra attacks.
Thanks, that's what I thought. Just wanted to get a consensus before I tried anything.
what about using Quick Bull Rush (combat), UC, Archives of Nethys wrote:
You can barrel into your opponent and follow this with an attack.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: On your turn, you can perform a single bull rush combat maneuver in place of one of your melee attacks. You must choose the melee attack with the highest base attack bonus to make the bull rush.
Normal: A bull rush combat maneuver is a standard action.
If I'm only using natural attacks, which attack is my attack with the highest bab?
Could I replace a secondary attack with it and still make the attack at my highest bab since it's not actually a combat maneuver based off of a weapon?
Any of your primary natural attacks would qualify. Secondary natural attacks may not be subject to BAB ordering, but that doesn't mean that they count as "highest BAB"; that's a completely different story. So lets say, for the sake of example, you had 3 primary attacks (say, two claws and a bite), and 2 secondary attacks (say, two wings). You could replace one of the claws or the bite with a Bull Rush. You could not replace the wing attacks with Bull Rush. Moreover, your Bull Rush could be placed anywhere in the sequence; beginning, middle, or end. Lastly, since you are making the bull rush in place of a melee attack (same wording as Trip, Sunder, Disarm), it qualifies to use any attack bonuses applicable to that substituted attack on the combat maneuver roll. So lets say you also have Weapon Focus (Bite). If you replaced your Bite with a Bull Rush, your Weapon Focus bonus would apply to the Bull Rush whereas if you replaced one of your claws, WF(Bite) would not apply.
As long as the natural attacks are different weapons they can be taken in any order. AFAIK the only way to get multiple attacks with the same natural weapon is with an eidolon, an eidolon above level 9 with less than 3 natural attacks gains a secondary natural attack with a natural weapon at -5, this would presumably follow the highest to lowest restriction of iterative attacks. If this eidolon rule is not in effect. natural attacks are made at full BAB (primary weapons) and BAB -5 (secondary weapons). Whether an attack is primary of secondary is not determined by the number of natural attacks made but by the natural weapon used. Bites & claws are usually primary natural weapons while wings & tails are usually secondary weapons, a creature with an attack routine of 3 primary bite attacks makes all of them at full BAB and a creature with an attack routine of 3 secondary tail slams makes all of it's attacks at BAB -5. A combat maneuver replacing a secondary attack would be at BAB -5, one replacing a primary attack would be at full BAB. The rules granting a character natural attacks should indicate whether the attacks are primary attacks (full BAB) or secondary attacks(BAB -5), AFAIK there is no rule granting a character a natural attack which doesn't specify whether it is primary or secondary.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
claudekennilol wrote: Thanks, that's what I thought. Just wanted to get a consensus before I tried anything.
what about using Quick Bull Rush (combat), UC, Archives of Nethys wrote:
You can barrel into your opponent and follow this with an attack.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: On your turn, you can perform a single bull rush combat maneuver in place of one of your melee attacks. You must choose the melee attack with the highest base attack bonus to make the bull rush.
Normal: A bull rush combat maneuver is a standard action.
If I'm only using natural attacks, which attack is my attack with the highest bab?
Could I replace a secondary attack with it and still make the attack at my highest bab since it's not actually a combat maneuver based off of a weapon?
i'd say you have to replace but take all its modifiers that apply to that attack's to-hit.
Can somebody provide the reference that Iterative attacks 'have to be taken in order'? This is my first time hearing such.
kyrt-ryder wrote: Can somebody provide the reference that Iterative attacks 'have to be taken in order'? This is my first time hearing such. I think it's an FAQ. ^_^
Kalindlara wrote: kyrt-ryder wrote: Can somebody provide the reference that Iterative attacks 'have to be taken in order'? This is my first time hearing such. I think it's an FAQ. ^_^ Ugh, Paizo FAQing new rules always irritates the hell out of me.
I can respect it as a recommendation to help make sure combats flow quickly, but that's ridiculous as a rule.
It's right in the CRB. Under Combat/Full-Attack:
PRD wrote: If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first. No FAQ is even necessary.
Thanks for the clarification Kazaan, much appreciated.
I'll have to see if I can track that down in my trust First Printing CRB.
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