Hello there again! Looking for help to build a Hybrid class or an archtype i may have overlooked, but i'm in dire need of it. my next group is going into Wrath of the Rightious, and im not sure they are prepared enough. we have no trapfinder, no true frontliner/damage dealer, and no true healer. I'm trying to figure something out to fill these holes, but nothing seems to fit. Help please?
Edit: to help, i have the classes of the other players
Arcainist (Arcane master: check)
Skald (Minor healing, buff, damage dealer)
Hunter (Ranged Support w/ minor healing)
Paladin (Damage Sponge Build w/ minor healing)
Alrighty, it's been a while since you posted this, but since no-one else is stepping up to the plate, and I have nothing better to do, here goes.
There are a few choices given your party loadout, and I'm assuming your adding and not replacing.
Warpriest does high damage with good chance to hit, is a great healer, and has below 0 hp cheese. He can take a punch, but is 0 help in finding/disabling traps; If you're not in organised play, I'd suggest warpriest, and remove the traps.
Investigator deals high rogue style damage, can deal with traps, and has some healing ability. You could make it by with a all the supplemental healing already in your group. He can't take too much of a hit though.
Alchemist can do all 3 things pretty well with the churungeon archetype, pretty good healing (still supplemental) decent damage, and with his mutagen can take a punch. Churungeon even lets you get breath of life and heal. I'd suggest vivisectionist instead of churungeon if you're not in organised play, since it has sneak attack damage you're missing out on.
I hope that one of these choices helps, I'll be checking the board periodically in case you provide more info.
Encourage the paladin to start focusing on offense and you just might get the front-liner. WIth the right spell selection and build, you could play a cleric or oracle and accomplish what you are looking for.
With this group, you have two built in front liners... Hunter's Animal Companion + Paladin.
Unfortunatley, the animal companion chosen by the Hunter is a hawk... and the Paladin REALLY wants to be all defensive.
Alrighty, it's been a while since you posted this, but since no-one else is stepping up to the plate, and I have nothing better to do, here goes.
There are a few choices given your party loadout, and I'm assuming your adding and not replacing.
Warpriest does high damage with good chance to hit, is a great healer, and has below 0 hp cheese. He can take a punch, but is 0 help in finding/disabling traps; If you're not in organised play, I'd suggest warpriest, and remove the traps.
Investigator deals high rogue style damage, can deal with traps, and has some healing ability. You could make it by with a all the supplemental healing already in your group. He can't take too much of a hit though.
Alchemist can do all 3 things pretty well with the churungeon archetype, pretty good healing (still supplemental) decent damage, and with his mutagen can take a punch. Churungeon even lets you get breath of life and heal. I'd suggest vivisectionist instead of churungeon if you're not in organised play, since it has sneak attack damage you're missing out on.
I hope that one of these choices helps, I'll be checking the board periodically in case you provide more info.
Well its not standardized play, just a buch of friends that want to get together. Both the pally and hunter are new to the game, and the the other two are trying different roles than normal. I'm just trying to fill in what i can to keep us out of trouble. But I'm not sure which of these 3 areas i should go into to do so.
Be Wizard, Press Win Button
Seriously though, you can literally solve both problems by being a wizard, conjuration specialist if you're so inclined to get bonuses for summoned creatures.
Or be a Summoner and use your Eidolon as a trap springer
You could also look at bard. They can wear light armor, heal, and (depending on archetype) find and disable traps. Built correctly the can be an effective front-line tank too. (Assuming you want to go that route, I would recognize the antagonize feat, using the diplomacy option specifically).
If you need all three (healing, frontline, trapfinding), take a human battle oracle and the trapfinder trait.
As your Dex will probably be only 12, you could take Focused Study as an alternative racial trait, netting you skill focus three times (1st level for disable device, 8th level and 16th level for what you like).
and the Paladin REALLY wants to be all defensive.
I have seen this in some of my groups, and it sucked. Remember this is not an MMO with literally mindlessly calculated "Aggro"-Routines, but rather more dynamic and intelligent opponents you fight. Outside of mindless monsters of course.
If any Animal and highter then that intelligence level monster is attacked in melee by one dude who hits like a wet noodle (Paladin) and someone who really hurts you (Skald), whom is it attacking back to stop getting hurt so badly?
Each and every time it ended that the group's combat dynamic was much worse of when a "tank" character was played, because they didnt do enough damage to make monsters want to attack them. So most of the monsters ended attacking the same character, instead of spreading out their damage dealing potential over two roughly equally dangerous player characters.
2 normal characters = each gets roughly 50% of the attention of monsters
1 "tank" and 1 "normal" character = the normal character gets ~80% attention and as a result has a much higher chance of dying.
NEVER dump your damage dealing when you want to be tanky! There are no aggro-holding mechanics in Pathfinder. If you do that you need some good combat tactics like Reach Weapon & Trip-Specialist to accomplist some of that. Or it will fail to the detriment of the other melee SCs.
I have seen this in some of my groups, and it sucked. Remember this is not an MMO with literally mindlessly calculated "Aggro"-Routines, but rather more dynamic and intelligent opponents you fight. Outside of mindless monsters of course.
If any Animal and highter then that intelligence level monster is attacked in melee by one dude who hits like a wet noodle (Paladin) and someone who really hurts you (Skald), whom is it attacking back to stop getting hurt so badly?
Each and every time it ended that the group's combat dynamic was much worse of when a "tank" character was played, because they didnt do enough damage to make monsters want to attack them. So most of the monsters ended attacking the same character, instead of spreading out their damage dealing potential over two roughly equally dangerous player characters.
2 normal characters = each gets roughly 50% of the attention of monsters
1 "tank" and 1 "normal" character = the normal character gets ~80% attention and as a result has a much higher chance of dying.
NEVER dump your damage dealing when you want to be tanky! There are no aggro-holding mechanics in Pathfinder. If you do that you need some good combat tactics like Reach Weapon & Trip-Specialist to accomplist some of that. Or it will fail to the detriment of the other melee SCs.
As someone who's been in the camp of wanting to be tanky in Pathfinder, I can't express how much truth is in this.
While there are Paladin spells that can force creatures to attack you, the saves for them are laughably weak.
While it's a bitter truth, Pathfinder does really call for offense over defense 9 times out of 10. The more creatures you kill, the less creatures there are to kill your teammates.
Yes I know you're not the Paladin in question here, but it's definitely something to tell them about.
That being said, there's a lot to be said for a shield bashing fighter (brawler archetype) with the antagonize feat and even moderate diplomacy. throw in stand still and the step up line and you can be dangerous. Add in a maelstrom shield and you have a rockstar tank, who might not do the most damage, but will certainly piss off his enemies.
You could also look at bard. They can wear light armor, heal, and (depending on archetype) find and disable traps. Built correctly the can be an effective front-line tank too. (Assuming you want to go that route, I would recognize the antagonize feat, using the diplomacy option specifically).
Well, the other problem is this, and i realize this should have been something i put up to begin with. I'm also the DM. Why? because i'm the only one anyone knows to run these games. so why am i making a PC as well? because of this giant hole in the group!
I would play a bard, But they are group faces. It's not all that engaging if i roleplay with myself the whole time, so i need something quieter. i could get the skald to be the big hoss of the group, but looking at the mythic paths, he chose Martial as his path. and the hunter chose trickster and a HAWK! So many problems and i'm still not seeing an easy solution.
the best option so far looks like the Battle Oracle suggested above, but noooo... they want me to be stupid difficult and make up a race. I'm the half Aasamar half Teifling with complicated history DX
...Challenge they said. something else to keep them busy with they said.
Hey, being DM and having to play a character in the background, there's something I know how to do! Going back to what I suggested a few days back, be the warpriest. Since you're DM, just don't put any traps in; boom, rogue needs eliminated.
You can be as vanilla and boring as you want as a warpriest, and still accomplish your group's needs. Being either an investigator or an alchemist you're likely to draw attention to yourself. Only join them if they need help; show up for the encounter somehow, get introduced, and stay as long as you're needed. If your group does well not needing you, you can use the 'church' excuse and leave.
If you are open the homebrew, you could try the Divine Agent multiclass archetype, which is essentially a Cleric/Rogue and based on one of my all-time favorite 2E multiclass characters I played for years. All you need to do is take Trapfinding as his 3rd level rogue talent, and he can also use find traps to help out with that too.
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Your group has plenty of healing, okay damage, and access to plenty of spells that mean they don't NEED trapfinding. Don't force in your own character just because you think they can't hack it. If you're really concerned with their chances, just throw a few wands their way and maybe scale up the treasure a bit to give them a bit more bite. Don't make combat take longer and be more complicated, and don't be the solution to their problems.
Davor has a good point. Sometimes when a group is lacking on one area, they are required to improvise to fill those roles. That often makes an adventure more exciting. I'd go this route, but maybe have an NPC in the wings if things go horribly wrong.
Don't force in your own character just because you think they can't hack it.
Absolutely. You've got a party of four, let them see how they do.
Warpriest hits hard, he's certainly got enough swift actions to get through tough spots be it self fervor or domains, and with revival exception, can use wands for later spells with ease. Let's agree to disagree here, but Cleric surely is easier to run.