| Shalin |
Hi folks,
looking for some PFS build advice. I play PBP so i'm more interested in a cool concept which is fun to play now than something optimised for long term play.
Basic info - emissary order of cocatrice
s 14 (10)
d 16 (5)
c 12 (2)
i 11 (1)
w 10
ch 14 (2)
HP 11, f 3, r 3 w 0 (unsure about halfling luck)
feats - taunt. i'm into the free dazzling display!
mounted combat - from emissary
skills ride, UMD, buff, dip, handle animals.
main questions
racials
do i go for the 30' move (which is good in medium armour thanks to emissary)
or outrider and shiftless +2 to ride, handle animals and bluff
Given i'm small, can i live on my wolf. in which case presumably the bonuses to 3 core skills is worth it??
is fey magic worth it? could get entangle, stablize, light and something else for underground. main thing is it doens't really fit the image.
weapons
Lance for charging. then long sword and heavy shield. what with +3 dex, +1 size, +6 breastplate that gives me ac 22! is that worth the drop in damage output? d6+2 vs d10+3 from say a greatsword.
traits
thinking about helpful (+4 aid another)
extremely fashionable (+1 dip and bluff)
second chance (re-roll failed save)
fates favoured (adaptable luck synergy)
good old reactionary
dangerously curious (make use of that floating 11 int)
mount
what to do with the wolf? power attack or combat reflexes and then body guard? noticing a high ac theme here...
any thoughts appreciated.
Fruian Thistlefoot
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do i go for the 30' move (which is good in medium armour thanks to emissary)
or outrider and shiftless +2 to ride, handle animals and bluff
Given i'm small, can i live on my wolf. in which case presumably the bonuses to 3 core skills is worth it??
Outrider because your small you're going to live on your mount.
weapons
Lance for charging. then long sword and heavy shield. what with +3 dex, +1 size, +6 breastplate that gives me ac 22! is that worth the drop in damage output? d6+2 vs d10+3 from say a greatsword.
You want a Lance for Charging. MW Cold Iron and Possibly a Adamantine(tho DR means less to you than other martials) Just for Flavor I chose a Elizium Bronze lance but Since season 6 I kind of wish I just went with Adamantine as my main weapon with the Cold Iron as Back up. You want as many solid +s on the weapon you can get as that is what is multiplied by 3 with spirited charge. Keen is the only exception but if you can fit in Improved critical than skip it.
For Armor you want the Rhino Hide....Trust me the Mithral Full plate seems nice...and it is...it is just expensive, comes with a high ACP, and does nothing for damage. Rhino hide adds another 2d6 to your charge. And as a ride by attack specialist typically AC isn't even an issue unless dealing with ranged enemies in which case look for some cover. Since you kill most things in 1 hit again AC is still not a issue.
Drop your dex to a 14 max...and Up your STR as high as you can...stats like:
Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Int: 8, Wis: 12, Cha: 9
(All level ups in STR) can move the Wisdom points back to int if you ok with a lower Will save as saves are important.
mount
what to do with the wolf? power attack or combat reflexes and then bodyguard? noticing a high ac theme here...
Valiant Steed is amazing for a mount. Since you're riding your wolf and he isn't getting an attack on the spirited charge it is best to not take Power attack. On my gecko I took COmbat reflexes, Bodyguard, Valiant steed, Iron will, and last feat will be toughness. It is all about keeping the mount under my control, him aiding me, and it staying alive since getting my best DPR depends on being on a mount.
I also recommend You buy a giant gecko for the first few levels till it kicks the bucket and then use your wolf. A good majority of early game includes defeating the environment and Spider Climb up walls is an answer to LOTs of scenarios.
Always put your first Pet attribute to INT 3. make him understand your language and be able to take more types for feats.
AC wise no need for Armor proficiency if you give them Barding armor with 0 ACP. Mithral really helps with that. But I would not spend too much money on gear for your Pet. MW studded Leather at first then Mithral when you can afford it.
traits
thinking about helpful (+4 aid another)
extremely fashionable (+1 dip and bluff)
second chance (re-roll failed save)
fates favoured (adaptable luck synergy)
good old reactionary
dangerously curious (make use of that floating 11 int)
Change your stats and you shouldn't have a floating 11 Int or need it.
Fate's Favored is good IF you take Adaptable luck but only if you take it. And if you do take it you should abuse this Trait with a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier and Possibly a Luck stone.
I use reactionary and magical knack (because I'm a ranger)
Second Chance is nice as rerolls are ALWAYS good.
My picks are second Chance and Reactionary. Unless you go adaptable luck which is player preference.
I personally like Halfling Luck as it is a static +1 all day long.
| Shalin |
Hey, thanks for the reply. I was just reading one of your posts the other day!
thanks for the pointers. Useful stuff.
I forgot to mention that i hate dropping stats. also i want to play a rounded char that has more than one option in combat.
Thats why im interested in the taunt/ dazzling display thing. I can imagine that it sets up a funny tension - charge or try a multi target debuff. both best to do in round 1.
I also find myself wondering about power attack vs the charge line, again allows for more flexibility - 1 charge then swap to greatsword and let the wolf join in. I kinda imagine him being a stand in the front hold the line kinda guy which again moves me away from charging every round.
Finally, how does one make use of the spare move action generated by using the mounts move - any nifty tricks?
cheers
Fruian Thistlefoot
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Not a Problem.
I forgot to mention that i hate dropping stats
Str: 15, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Int: 10, Wis: 12, Cha: 10
(You can switch Wis and Int if you like for more skill points. But Saves ARE more important.)Unless you're going range you will need Str as your main stat.
This is not Dumpy like my first quoted stats. As a halfling you can use a Halfling Sling Staff. I use it on my ranger. With Challenge + Full BaB+ 14 dex+ a MW staff you will still have a good 80ft Shot to throw out as you close distance. It also allows you to switch to swinging when you close in melee. Tho you could easily drop the staff and move drawing your Greatsword (or Falchion) for better crit range and slightly bigger damage dice.
also i want to play a rounded char that has more than one option in combat.
Thats why im interested in the taunt/ dazzling display thing. I can imagine that it sets up a funny tension - charge or try a multi target debuff. both best to do in round 1.
I have plenty of Combat options but none are more effective than the charge. But since I have power attack, favored enemy, Full BaB I can still dish damage if i was to ever be dismounted...1 time in 9 level. Happens so very little.
I have never been a fan of Dazzling Display. I prefer to just kill you dead and not waste my actions Debuffing. If I wanted to debuff I would play my whip magus or a class that can just do it without much investment. To me Feats are one of the most precious thing a character has. It is very hard to put gold value to a Feat and to me it makes them priceless.
If you want that I am not going to harp on you to change it by all means do it but usually a charge kills everything (Including bosses) in 1 shot from levels 1-8. And when things die they can not cause me or my team any problems or harm anyone else.
I also find myself wondering about power attack vs the charge line, again allows for more flexibility - 1 charge then swap to greatsword and let the wolf join in. I kinda imagine him being a stand in the front hold the line kinda guy which again moves me away from charging every round.
I have both just because power attack adds something to multiply by 3.
As far as the charging line because it is 3+ feats its best to dedicate to the combat style or just ignore it.
A Lance still does 2x damage on a normal charge which can still really put a hurting on them. Probably won't kill but the weakest mooks in 1 shot. But taking 50-75% of their health in 1 big bang is enough for them to turn their attention to you and keep them on you.
So really decide if you are going to go with charging being your MAIN combat option or if it is just something you are going to do dabble in. That will be your answer to if you take the charge line.
Power attack of course is a must....and being halfling Risky Striker is a pretty solid feat for damage to help overcome that -2 to Str from being a halfling.
Finally, how does one make use of the spare move action generated by using the mounts move - any nifty tricks?
Draw a weapon? I am always charging which is a full round and does not leave me with a Move action. When you use a mount as a move action you can use the mount to do a double move and still get your attack. But since I'm charging I can charge at double his movement speed.
My character isn't much for fancy tricks and is all about business.
Have you looked at the Huntmaster archetype? It is not a wolf but they can gain a dog which is similar. Allows you to be off the mount and fighting in tandem with the dog...yet I'm sure you could still ride it and hop off it at will.
On a side note I'm currently working on a hunter which is a class you might want to look into. Pack like tactics, Spells (and share spell), Decent amount of skills, and a very strong Animal companion List. I'm currently working on a Human Vermin Hunter who uses a Giant Mantis. Taking the Eye for Talent to give the Mantis +2 Int off the rip. Going to make him very Grab focused and those Vermin buffs are just nasty. There is 1 that does bleed damage. A flying AC who goes right for the squishier looking targets (Casters) ties them in a grapple and just shreds them up like a real life mantis.
| Drogos |
I picked up Dazzling Display on my -1 character, a Rage Prophet. In 12 levels, I used it 3 times. The action economy on it is terrible. If you want to intimidate, Cornugan Smash is the feat you want.
I'd concur with your line of thinking that a mounted hunter would be more flexible. I've got a Gnome Cavalier and an Aasimar Hunter. Of the two, the Cav does Damage, but that's it. The Hunter has a lot more flexibility. I didn't make a mounted Hunter, but it wouldn't be hard with a few feat choices to make it work. About the only thing I would strongly encourage on any hunter builds is Pack Flanking because getting that Outflank Bonus for both potential attackers really boosts accuracy.
Deighton Thrane
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For Armor you want the Rhino Hide....Trust me the Mithral Full plate seems nice...and it is...it is just expensive, comes with a high ACP, and does nothing for damage. Rhino hide adds another 2d6 to your charge. And as a ride by attack specialist typically AC isn't even an issue unless dealing with ranged enemies in which case look for some cover. Since you kill most things in 1 hit again AC is still not a issue.
Actually, with the Melee Tactics Toolbox out, the new armor of choice is Mammoth's Hide. There are 2 versions of it, the one from Inner Sea Combat was the superior version, as a +3 hide armor with a +4d6 on charges, however it's not PFS legal. The one in Melee Tactics Toolbox is only a +2 hide armor, with a +3d6 on a charge. Not nearly as much of an improvement over Rhino Hide. So go with Rhino Hide, but later on if you have the money, it's +1d6 weapon damage on a charge.
| Gwen Smith |
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Lunge is nice on a mount without reach. When you stop and attack with your lance, he can still get an attack in. (This is the only time I like Lunge, BTW).
Also, for an Intimidate build, remember that you are at -4 for being smaller most of the time. You won't have them shaken for more than one round. I suppose you could do the Intimidate feats on your mount, once he's smart enough.
And for a charge build, a wand of Feather step will be a must for your mount. Difficult terrain will completely shut you down. Tell your allies know you need the lane, but don't let your need for a charge lane completely shut down their builds/strategies.
I'm not sure how Dangerously Curious will make use of your Int--can you explain that?
| Shalin |
Gwen - i was thinking to get taunt - uses bluff and ignores size mods.
yeah wondering about charge viablity w PFS, the desire to be flexible and not need much coordination team work built up. especially as i play PBP so there's not much chat.
useful what you say about feather step.
11 int refers to only needing to make the UMD check for scrolls/wands - not the simulate ability score as well which is 26 for lvl1 spells.
in other news - how about a dip into oracle? nature mystery can get a 6int AC, seems people think having high int is a real plus. is that worth it? would work well with wanting to have a bit of CHA for party face and would lend a lot of utilityesque spell casting.
also would give access to divine favour which with fates favoured and charging gives +2/4 for 1 min - not bad for a lvl1 spell!
| TGMaxMaxer |
Take the Sacred Huntmaster Inquisitor archetype instead, it gives up judgement (which is cool) for a full hunter AC complete with animal focus and teamwork synergy (and inquisitor gets teamwork feats too).
Now you have skills, magic, full druid AC, teamwork feats, and BANE.
That plus inquisitors get conversion that gives Wis to bluff, so you need a little dex, some str, and wisdom.
It also saves the argument with wis as a saving throw stat.
Str 14, Dex 14 Con 13 Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 10. Increase wis at 4, con at 8, (you'll want the HP at that point). Buy a WIS Headband and a STR belt.
Use animal focus for Str until you get your belt, use Outflank and Pack Flanking to get the best bonus on attacks, buy some menacing armor spikes (8000g, or a 4000g Menacing AOMF for the wolf)to boost that another +2 to hit when flanking (which in this case is when mounted, or always, for a total +6 to hit, which also works applies to the mount).
If you want the debuff, Blistering Invective is a spell that does the same thing and catches them on fire (the reflex save being made after they are intimidated, so at a -2).