This is a very straight forward idea. There comes a time when a class is needed for players and GMs that is easy to use and fast to build. Such a class is apropos for those new to the game and simple folk like myself who like to keep it simple-yet-customizable. So, here's the idea:
Marvel
Role: Various
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
Starting Wealth: 4d6 x 10 gp
Class Skills
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier. The Marvel can choose 10 skills to be class skills.
BAB: Full
Saves: All Good
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
A marvel is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as one exotic weapon of choice and light and medium armor.
Bonus Feats
At 1st level and every even level thereafter a marvel gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the marvel gains a feat at every level). They must qualify for these feats. A marvel can qualify for a feat with a racial requirement as long as they are the same size category as the race specified.
That's all there is to it. It may seem overpowered, but it is intended for players and GMs that lack the time or know-how to optimize like power gamers. I hope this is helpful to you all.
It's not OP, it's just boring.
It's not OP, it's just boring.
Yes, it is completely without flavor. But, like rice, it can be prepared in many different ways. All it takes is imagination.
It's not OP, it's just boring.Yes, it is completely without flavor. But, like rice, it can be prepared in many different ways. All it takes is imagination.
You miss the point.
Power-gaming or no, most people like having class features. In fact, I'd even dare to say most people play classes FOR their cool class features.
The Fighter is pretty bare too, but at least he tries, and has archetypes that try harder. This doesn't even have a token Armor/Weapon Training and Bravery attempt at making the class interesting.
Besides which, this class does nothing to help someone who isn't good at optimizing. Feats are, inherently, the build feature that requires the most system knowledge to actually utilize.
Any schlub can look at a Druid and go "I can turn into a Tiger and maul people! Sweet!". It builds itself, almost.
This class is a blank slate. EVERYTHING it has is based around system knowledge. This class, you choose bad Feats, you suck. It's even worse than the aforementioned Fighter, which also kinda builds itself.
Wear heavy Armor. Choose Weapon category. Make Feats to make my weapn good.
This doesn't even give that much guidance. It's a terrible newbie class, in addition to being MECHANICALLY uninspiring.
It may be "like rice" which can be used in many different recipes. But unless you know said recipes (how to optimize) it's just plain, white, boring rice.
Just for shiggles I built this class with my Freeform Class Selection system (it breaks down all class features into a set number of points):
Full BaB: 6 points
3 Good saves: 6 points
d10 HD: 3 points
6+Int skills: 3 points
Martial Weapons: 2 points
Bonus Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: 2 points
Generic Bonus Feat: 2 points
Medium armor: 2 points
Total: 26/25 (over budget by one point)
So, it's top heavy.
However, each class gets 5 points per level. For the entire rest of your career, you only spend 2 points per level with this class.
No other class in the game is this bare (Fighter comes close, but it still isn't that bad). Generally speaking, my system sorts things pretty well by power per level.
Full casters eat up most of their points just on casting, leaving room for one or two other features (as they are in the base game). Half-Casters get more features, but sill spend about half their points on magic. Non-Casters or 4 level casters get a bunch of class features, but often have a lot of wiggle room.
Your class is nothing but wiggle room.
My random made up system doesn't PROVE anything, mind you, and it's a bit kludgy, but as a basic barometer of a functioning class it works fairly well.
This class is not well designed on its own merits just as it isn't well designed for newbies, by my reckoning.
You make a strong case against this idea, Rynjin, and I respect your opinion. Consider this then an "empty cup". You might be familiar with this Eastern concept, that it is better to receive a cup with nothing in it than with something not to your taste/liking.
All that said, we can neither prove nor disprove that an idea is boring or interesting, as these are relative terms. Thank you for your comments.
You make a strong case against this idea, Rynjin, and I respect your opinion. Consider this then an "empty cup". You might be familiar with this Eastern concept, that it is better to receive a cup with nothing in it than with something not to your taste/liking.
All that said, we can neither prove nor disprove that an idea is boring or interesting, as these are relative terms. Thank you for your comments.
By the way, your system seems sound, so perhaps you have come close to "proving" that this idea is a bad one. I'll be the first to admit that I am no number cruncher.
Drop the exotic weapon (he's nothing but feats anyway), drop the level 1 feat, lower skill points to 4, and devise a point pool that is as broad as the current concept. Let the player choose which ability score fuels it and that will guide what the points can be spent on.
I have myself pondered making a class simply titled Hero for new players who don't want many features to keep track of- just something to have fun with. So because of that I guess I see an appeal for the marvel. However, it needs at least some flavor.
Something more akin to Rogue Genius' Godling classes might be more noob friendly. Those classes in particular are horrendously overpowered, but the basic idea is they are "The Anyclass".
You can have a big beefy fighter dude with Domains, or a shapeshifting Rogue! That sort of thing.
Basically just a menu of powers, much like Discoveries or Rage Powers.
IME new players tend to do pretty well with a class who has a good chassis (like the Barbarian), that ALSO has a bunch of customizable powers. It means that even if they screw up on power selection, they still have a good fallback )Your Barbarian may have wasted a Rage Power on Mighty Hurler or Groundbreaker, but at the end of the day he's got +4 Str/Con for as long as he needs it and can tank like a m+@#$@#&#~$*, so who cares?).
If you really want bare bones, go back to 3.5E, and just take outsider or Dragon Hit Dice.
OUtsiders, full BAB, all weapons, 8 skill points, all skills, all good saves, d8 HD.
Dragons, full BAB, all weapons, 6 skill points, I think all skills, all good saves, d12 HD.
Plain as could be, but completely disregarding immunities, the two classes were as viable as most fighters JUST with their base abilities!
If you added in immunities and stuff, they actually worked pretty well.
They've been scaled back in PF some, but the originals were quite solid martially.
==Aelryinth
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Ashiel made a point once that probably the best class for a noob is the Ranger.
It's very hard to make bad choices with a Ranger with any reasonableness. You only have to ask the DM for a recommendation on FE. The terrain is whatever is local.
You get a pet, so you get to practice using teamwork and combat tricks with your own secondary character, OR you can give away your FE bonus to friends...teamwork!
You get a few spells. Since you prepare them and don't need a book, you can't make a bad choice...tomorrow, you just grab something different. There's not a lot of them, so you'll never be a combat spellcaster, but you can sample the possibilities.
You have access to healing magic.
You can make magic items with a feat.
The character gets stronger with levels, particularly as potent new spells unfold.
===Aelryinth
Yeah, ranger is probably the best newbie class.
For the Marvel, maybe give it a Luck Pool or Reroll Pool. That way, the newbie can try things out, and if it doesn't work, they can try again.
Maybe a Mimic ability, where they can try to use a class feature they saw another PC or NPC use?
Maybe an Enemy Focus ability, that gives them a bonus against a specific enemy?
funny enough little red did something slightly more fleshed out than this with the adventurer from Alternate Paths:Martial Characters.
If I wanted to make a class for newbies, I'd design it in a way that it helps them learn the game rather than simply make a class that's easy to play. In other words, the class is almost like a tutorial in itself. It starts off rather simple and then gradually exposes the player to other game mechanics. The ranger already does a great job of that. They start off very simple and give an ample amount of skill points to let players try out all the skills without punishing them for allocating their skill points on less useful skills. Combat styles do an excellent job helping players get familiar with the vital feats for each build and allows them to choose their bonus feats from a small useful list instead of the massive amount of feats available. At later levels, they get exposure to how spells, companions, and full-attacking works.
As for the Marvel, I'm not crazy about it. I'm not expecting you to make something with such a high bar as I mentioned before. My biggest suggestion is provide an expanding bonus feat list like the monk or the fighter's combat styles. As I mentioned before, this will help the player learn some of the staple feats without having to drown themselves in the horridly bloated feat list. Also, give an actual list of class skills. A new player would have no idea what class skills to choose. A class skill list can point out what skills to invest in.