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I've recently come under some flak about using my azata's skills during out of combat situations. I was wondering how normal it is for gms to tell players that their imp familiar is unable to make a diplomacy check because no one in town will talk to it. Even though they are accompanied and assisted in the check by a 'normal' player.
As well, is it normal to have to argue about the ability of a imp familiar, that is explicitly able to use wands, to hold said wands for use?
Oh, and one more thing off topic... if a gm missplays a spell, what is the proper way to inform them that a spell does not work in that fashion? (especially when said spell would kill a player)
Thanks for the input!
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Well no. 1 really depends on the scenario and the situation, it might warrant a rather substantial penalty, and what you want to accomplish.
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Imps have hands, thus they can use wands. Other familiars like hawks, snakes, of centipedes just have to roll UMD. (though I haven't checked this recently with the release of the familar folio).
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It really depends on the spell, the scenario might assume that the spell works a certain way, but depending on the situation, informing the GM after the scenario might be a good option. It really depends on the GM in question, I would personally like to hear thing like this ASAP, but the player of the dead character might not appreciate it.
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I've recently come under some flak about using my azata's skills during out of combat situations. I was wondering how normal it is for gms to tell players that their imp familiar is unable to make a diplomacy check because no one in town will talk to it.
Probably depends on where you are. In Ustalav you can expect torches and pitchforks, in andoran you're going to get shunned as a chelaxian stooge, and in absolom girl scouts are going to walk up to it and try to roast marshmellows on its infernal flames.
As well, is it normal to have to argue about the ability of a imp familiar, that is explicitly able to use wands, to hold said wands for use?
Might want to print out the faq then.
Oh, and one more thing off topic... if a gm missplays a spell, what is the proper way to inform them that a spell does not work in that fashion? (especially when said spell would kill a player)
Thanks for the input!
Proper way to ignore it unless its going to kill a player.. then you really need to point it out. You should do so with the rule book in hand, already opened to the spell.
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Imps have hands, thus they can use wands. Other familiars like hawks, snakes, of centipedes just have to roll UMD. (though I haven't checked this recently with the release of the familar folio).
This is incorrect. There is a specific list of Improved Familiars that have hands that can use wands at all. See this forum post.
Oh, and one more thing off topic... if a gm missplays a spell, what is the proper way to inform them that a spell does not work in that fashion? (especially when said spell would kill a player)
It sounds like you're referring to a specific case, but in general, politely saying what is wrong and showing the spell from a rulebook is usually taken ok by GMs. I don't recommend doing it often if it's not important, but in a case where it really matters; it's better to be right if possible.
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If your "pet" is taking the spotlight all the time you may want to consider toning down its use. It shouldn't be normal to argue about imps and wands, as they are specifically allowed. Just be sure your imp doesn't always have the right wand for the situation always, meaning make sure to specify what wand your imp is holding before combat starts.(Not trying to accuse you, but this could be what some GMs are concerned about.)
On to the misuse of a spell, it should be called out at the table at the time. Even more so if a character dies because of it. This is so much more difficult to deal with later.
This all sounds like communication issues, if this is just one GM you should talk about the issues you're having with his rulings and bring the appropriate references to show how you are following rules. A lot of people never actually use the forums here, so may not understand/know the current status of some of these rulings.
Your other option is to contact the local Venture officer for your area, especially if the GM is being unreasonable, or if it is multiple gms.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Imps have hands, thus they can use wands. Other familiars like hawks, snakes, of centipedes just have to roll UMD. (though I haven't checked this recently with the release of the familar folio).This is incorrect. There is a specific list of Improved Familiars that have hands that can use wands at all. See this forum post.
The fact that we have a FAQ regarding this issue, and a separate forum post is one of the bigger problems of PFS - especially since this means that a enemy creature can use UMD, but it doesn't work if it is a familiar or animal companion.
I realize why this is the case (action economy) but, I am not in love with allowing it for just a small selection of familiars.
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The sort of min/maxing involved in a wizard dumping CHA and trusting his familiar to handle the diplomacy checks is legal in PFS, in the sense that GMs can't make the player redo his character's build choices.
It's also legal for PFS GMs to deal with such shenanigans in "in-character" ways, like saying the NPCs won't talk to the familiar.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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On the misplaying of spells:
If it's just a minor mistake, you should just roll with it, make a mental or written note, and talk to the GM about it after the game. For such small things, the flow of the game should never be interrupted.
If, on the other hand, a character might be severely harmed (up to character death) by an incorrect decision, politely inform your GM that he/she is misplaying a spell or a rule and that this affects the game in a way that it can't wait until after the game. Then explain to them what kind of mistake they made and how it is supposed to be played.
There's still the possibility that it was intentionally played the way it was because the scenario changed a rule for the encounter. In that case, the GM should inform you that a special rule is in place (and after the game he/she can show you the text in the scenario).
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As someone mentioned, I did mean improved familiar when I said imp familiar. Mine is an Azata. But, I thank you all for the input.
To sum up, I perfectly understand that there can be a need to adjust what flies in any particular game, but it just seems a bit extreme to completely shut down a rather expensive to enhance class feature with an, "it just doesn't work". Penalties I could understand. I mean, it is a tiny creature with wings(attractive and being associated with cayden cailean not withstanding). But some of the player races are quite odd as well.
In response to deusvult, some history of my character. He is designed to be a face wizard, who happens to have a familiar who is a better face than he. It's not a cha-dump shenanigans character, even though my cha is dumped... he put a feat and two traits into making cha skills into int skills, and also class skills(not to mentions spending skill points on filling out the skills, as well as gold cost in magic items to support the skills via circlet of persuasion). So I rightfully paid for the ability I was seeking to use. Which is why it hits so hard to have the character shut down like that.
Thank you for you answers on missplaying of spells, my specific situation had to do with a casting of weird. And he had missplayed it and it would have been my death. I was told off at the table for showing him the spell. So I was wondering if I had commited a faux pas, or if he was being touchy. It seems a little of both.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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As someone mentioned, I did mean improved familiar when I said imp familiar. Mine is an Azata. But, I thank you all for the input.
To sum up, I perfectly understand that there can be a need to adjust what flies in any particular game, but it just seems a bit extreme to completely shut down a rather expensive to enhance class feature with an, "it just doesn't work". Penalties I could understand. I mean, it is a tiny creature with wings(attractive and being associated with cayden cailean not withstanding). But some of the player races are quite odd as well.In response to deusvult, some history of my character. He is designed to be a face wizard, who happens to have a familiar who is a better face than he. It's not a cha-dump shenanigans character, even though my cha is dumped... he put a feat and two traits into making cha skills into int skills, and also class skills(not to mentions spending skill points on filling out the skills, as well as gold cost in magic items to support the skills via circlet of persuasion). So I rightfully paid for the ability I was seeking to use. Which is why it hits so hard to have the character shut down like that.
Thank you for you answers on missplaying of spells, my specific situation had to do with a casting of weird. And he had missplayed it and it would have been my death. I was told off at the table for showing him the spell. So I was wondering if I had commited a faux pas, or if he was being touchy. It seems a little of both.
I think more GMs would have problems with the fact, that your familar is doing the diplomacy, not with your huge bonus (and even then how is your familar better than you, surely you have at least 18 INT).
Wizards or other INT based casters are rather common on our area, and while it does no end of damage to my paladins confidence in that area, the players of those characters often have to be the person who ends up making that Diplomacy roll so ....In any case your GM actually has a leg to stand on, personally I don't think it applies when you have an improved familiar like yours, but ...
Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim as class skills.
Of course there might be a PFS specific FAQ or forum Post I am unaware of, but it is a tiny winged creature, the depending on the situation, that might very well count as unfavorable circumstances (but since we don't know the scenario in question).
Regarding your the death of your character, that spell (how the hell did you encounter something like this in PFS?) is pretty clear, but you might have faced a variant effect or something like that. (The spell requires two saves and has plenty of descriptors)
