Using Feats with Full-Attack

[Baumfluch]

Hi,
first of all, im not a native Speaker, i´ll try my best to write my question understandable.

It´s about using feats - such as vital Strike - combined with a full attack Action.

I know for that particular feat, there are already answers and i´ve read them. I´m trying to figure out how to understand the rules in a way i dont need to Google every single feat.

So here is my Problem:

In the Combat chapter it´s said: "After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks..."

So everytime I start my round with an attack-action i may still choose whether i wanna go for the rest of my attacks or take a move Action.

Having that in mind i read the "vital Strike" feat saying: " When you use the attack action, you can make one attack ..."

For me it seemed legit to continue my round going for a full attack then, since the feat explicit says i can use it during an attack Action, wich i do. After this attack Action i´m usually allowed to continue attacking turing into a full-attack.

Once i read that vital strike does not go along with a full attack, i started wondering and found basicly four different ways the rulebook describes feats applying on attack / Standard Actions.

1. description like "vital Strike", explicitly calling it an attack Action wich usually allows a full attack

2. description like "cleave" or "Overhead Chop"(two handed fighter): "As a standard action, you can make a single attack ..."

3. description like "improved called shot" (ult. combat): "When taking a full-round or standard action that gives you multiple attacks, you can replace a single attack..."

4. description like power attack: "You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn..."

So after reading lots of boards i figured it out this way:
Feats that affect Actions(such as power Attack), without having said sth. like "as a Standard Action..." or "as an attack Action..." are kind of passive feats that go along with full attack.

Feats like Vital Strike, Cleave etc, that are an Action (Standard) for themselves, do not go along with a full-attack Action, since they are not (basic-) "attack-actions" as defined in the combat chapter.

Conclusion: Only feats that explicitly allow being used in a full-attack (such as improved called shot) or feats that apply a "passive" effect (like power attack) are allowed to be used in a full attack.

is that correct?

sorry for the Long post and thanks for your help.

[Chemlak]

Pretty much, yes.

Another way to look at it is that the options you choose with your first attack can limit you to just that attack.

Vital Strike is limited to the attack action, so once you've used it, you can't then proceed to use the full attack action, because using vital strike "locked" you into only using the attack action.

On the other hand, you can take two-weapon fighting penalties, only make the first attack, and still choose to only use the attack action.

[Baumfluch]

Thanks.

You said Vital Strike is limited to the attack action, so once you've used it, you can't then proceed to use the full attack action, because using vital strike "locked" you into only using the attack action.

that make me come to a very different Problem:
What about optional effects that limit you to full-attack.
Being a Two-Weapon-Fighter i gain +1 on attackroll when doing a full-attack.
Considering CoreRuleBook -> Combat, i may opt into a full-attack after doing my first attack.

So lets say i start off with an attack, and miss it by 1. Can i then say "okay i will run full-attack, so i gained a +1 on attack roll, so i hit"?
Or do i have to decide whether making a full-attack or not before doing my first Action as Two-Weapon-Fighter?

sry 4 offtopic, just came in my mind reading that.

[Chemlak]

Not off topic at all.

You would have to decide before making the first attack whether you're getting the +1 from twin blades, and even if you actually only make one attack, you've still used the full Attack action.