No other cards may be used on this check.
So, this one is a bit different in that it says you can't "use" cards on the check. What exactly constitutes using a card? I'm guessing the intent here is that it goes further than simply playing a card. So, my questions:
1. Can Feiya recharge a card to decrease the difficulty?
2. If a Potion of Heroism was already played does it affect the check?
3. If S&S Valeros is at your location can he add 1d4 to your check?
My guess is the answer to all of them is no, though I'm the least sure about Valeros. A bit of confirmation or group insight would be nice. Thanks.
Hi Hawk,
I agree your interpretation as usual :-). This said, I agree a bit of clarity from Mike/Vic would help. You cannot say "any on-going effect from cards do not apply" because that would mean that the scenario itself (and winning conditions) wouldn't - and I think that wouldn't be safe. Also you use the Conch to attempt a check... that may relates to another card - seems to me at least the powers of that card aren't suppresed during the check. And so on...
Not sure it's tricky enough to win the weekly can of worms contest but certainly enough to make a good candidate until we have an answer :-).
I don't know what Conch of the Tritons, so I can't speak in specifics. But general logic, I think, is that powers aren't "using" their required cards. The interpretation of the rules we've always played with is a card is only "used" when a power on it is activated. When Lini reveals an animal for her power, you can still play that animal for its power. When Seoni discards a spell for her ability, she can't recharge it. That RoRL location that only lets you play one card per check wouldn't stop Valeros's power from activating, and so on.
Point is, "playing" a card is defined, but not "using" it :
Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card. [...]Doing something with a card that does not use a power on that card does not count as playing that card.
So IMHO either the Conch text should say : "No other cards may be played on this check."
Or the intent is different and should be clarified.
If what Hawkmoon is saying is the case, shouldn't it say
No other cards or powers may be used on this check
I would assume that any power that doesn't use a card (like Valeros free d4) would still work, but any power that uses a card (even if you don't have to play the card) is out, so no d4 from Lem.
This is a strange new term, "using" a card. I don't think it occurs elsewhere in PACG. It seems we need to have this term defined.
Here is an interesting discussion about of playing cards, that talks about "using" powers. It doesn't pertain to the specific situation at hand (I think) but it helps us think about "using" things.
"Doing something with a card that does not use a power on that card does not count as playing that card. For example, when Alahazra discards a card to use a power on her character card, the discarded card does not count as being played (meaning she also can’t recharge it)"
The big question as I see it is, is
Is 'using a power character on a card' the same thing as 'using a card'? I would argue that it is an so all of the power mentioned above would not work with the shell.
though the counter example comes in the section on encountering cards, which,unlike the conch shell, seems to clearly differentiate between using cards and using power. For example
"You may use a power or card that lets you evade the card you’re encountering."
"You may also use powers or cards that state they can be used before you act."
edit: I want to point out that this section is an anomaly. The rest of the rules uses the phrase "Play cards and use powers"
If using a "free" power from a character card, like Valeros' d4, counts as "using" the character card, wouldn't using the skills on the character card also count? So not "using" any cards means you get a d4 and nothing else?
I don't think using powers with no cost would ever count as using a card. I'd you have to do admitting with another card, though (even just a reveal like RotR Lini) then you are using a card.
We're on this.
I think there were some cards in RotR's Sins of the Saviors that used the word "use" as well. Not sure.
Hmm...Yes Ordikon's Staff says "You may use another item on this check." I treated that as play (and indeed that may be the intention for Ordikon's Staff).
I'll have to look for others.
Headband of Epic Intelligence and Robes of Xin-Shalast too, as well as the monster Nirento. Let me know if you find any others.
We've resolved this for Summon Monster and Conch of the Tritons; the Headband, Robes, Staff, and Nirento we decided were just cosmetic, so we're changing them from "use" to "play" but FAQing them. For Summon Monster and Conch of the Tritons, the rationales that we used to change the print-on-demand deck were these:
Summon Monster says I can't play other cards on my check. Can I use a power on my character card?
No.
Resolution: On Summon Monster, change "No other cards may be played on this check." to "Characters may not play other cards or use powers on this check."
Conch of the Tritons says I can't use cards on the check. Can I use a power on my character card?
You can't play other cards or use powers on that check.
Resolution: On Conch of the Tritons, change "No other cards may be used on this check." to "Characters may not play other cards or use powers on this check."
These may not be FAQ'd for a little while, so don't worry about it. But now you know the intent.
Thanks!
[Hey guys, I just managed to make a shorter post than the usual "We're on this" or "Hold that thought" from not-this-Mike]
[Foreword : damned! the above [] is self destructive since now my post is way longer]
Chief Technical Officer
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We've resolved this for Summon Monster and Conch of the Tritons; the Headband, Robes, Staff, and Nirento we decided were just cosmetic, so we're changing them from "use" to "play" but FAQing them. For Summon Monster and Conch of the Tritons, the rationales that we used to change the print-on-demand deck were these:
Summon Monster says I can't play other cards on my check. Can I use a power on my character card?
No.
Resolution: On Summon Monster, change "No other cards may be played on this check." to "Characters may not play other cards or use powers on this check."Conch of the Tritons says I can't use cards on the check. Can I use a power on my character card?
You can't play other cards or use powers on that check.
Resolution: On Conch of the Tritons, change "No other cards may be used on this check." to "Characters may not play other cards or use powers on this check."These may not be FAQ'd for a little while, so don't worry about it. But now you know the intent.
Added to FAQ.