
Cynge |

One thing that I guess is kind of a house rule but really shouldn't be:
I actively encourage my players to change the flavor of classes in order to make the mechanics work for the type of character they want to role play. For example, one of my players once converted the ninja class into a gypsy. The ninja's ki pool was flavored as gypsy magic, shurikens became small throwing knives. All the mechanics were identical, just the flavor was different.
I really like this idea, and it fits with a campaign that I'm going to be putting together. Ninja, Samurai and Gunslinger are things that won't really fit the theme...but if I can retheme them instead of outright denying my players from playing them, it'd be great.
So...Ninja to Gypsy...
How to go about doing the same with Samurai and Gunslinger?

Dustyboy |

bookrat wrote:One thing that I guess is kind of a house rule but really shouldn't be:
I actively encourage my players to change the flavor of classes in order to make the mechanics work for the type of character they want to role play. For example, one of my players once converted the ninja class into a gypsy. The ninja's ki pool was flavored as gypsy magic, shurikens became small throwing knives. All the mechanics were identical, just the flavor was different.
I really like this idea, and it fits with a campaign that I'm going to be putting together. Ninja, Samurai and Gunslinger are things that won't really fit the theme...but if I can retheme them instead of outright denying my players from playing them, it'd be great.
So...Ninja to Gypsy...
How to go about doing the same with Samurai and Gunslinger?
This isn't too bad, I've done the same with paladin->nature paladin, changing alignment to TN and then using basic swaps to make the class feel like something that would work more druidic... With Divine bond replaced by Wild Empathy and the choice of a druidic domain or animal companion, Lay on hands replaced by SNA 1-6 as a SLA and smite evil replaced by Entangle and spells swapped for the Ranger spell list for example.

Orthos |

How to go about doing the same with Samurai and Gunslinger?
Samurai's fairly easy. They're basically just a Cavalier with a focus on swordsmanship and resilience over mounted combat and field command. Expand the list of weapons they can have Weapon Expertise on and you're pretty much done.
Gunslinger really just requires changing up what weapons they use. Bolt Ace archetype switches them up for crossbows, and I could see similar adjustments being made for long/shortbows, slings, or even throwing weapons if you so desire. Reflavor Grit as "Luck" or "Skill" or "Focus" and you're done.

Barathos |

Cynge wrote:How to go about doing the same with Samurai and Gunslinger?Samurai's fairly easy. They're basically just a Cavalier with a focus on swordsmanship and resilience over mounted combat and field command. Expand the list of weapons they can have Weapon Expertise on and you're pretty much done.
Similar to this, at my table I offer an alt version of the samurai that replaces the Weapon Expertise weapons with the bastard sword, bardiche and swordbreaker dagger.

Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |

You could reflavor the gunslinger as a half-construct built to be a killing machine that recharges by killing things. Their gun-arm malfunctions whenever you misfire.
A gunman or crossbowman that steals a part of a person's soul whenever they kill them or land a critical blow.
A crazy inventor who wields bizarre contraptions that fire deadly projectiles that must be reloaded and maintained with expensive materials. Whenever their invention slays a creature or displays a sudden surge of deadly power, the inventor becomes struck with maniacal excitement that they can use to repair their inventions or perform acts of brilliance.
You could reflavor the samurai as a native Andoran (Native American) that's a horsewhiperer who follows the tenets of some wild spirit. The native Andoran can call upon the spirit to bless him in battle against a foe. He uses his faith in the wild to steel himself against great turmoil and remain fighting even when a normal man would begin dying.

Dustyboy |

Orthos wrote:Similar to this, at my table I offer an alt version of the samurai that replaces the Weapon Expertise weapons with the bastard sword, bardiche and swordbreaker dagger.Cynge wrote:How to go about doing the same with Samurai and Gunslinger?Samurai's fairly easy. They're basically just a Cavalier with a focus on swordsmanship and resilience over mounted combat and field command. Expand the list of weapons they can have Weapon Expertise on and you're pretty much done.
Eastern europe featured numerous mounted-centric ranged styles, For example the poles began using light and hand crossbows from horseback with great effect, they were known to wear plate mail tech fairly early as well (Around the 1100's)
The Mongols had some of the best mounted archery tactics out there, allowing for light armor that was almost as effective as plate, with incredible shortbows.
Then there were the huns, they were actually the region that was known for the feared musket axe, which they used on horseback.
Samurai=mounted archer knight and usually I use those in any civilization which has such tactics.
The inverse could also be used for cavalier into samurai, granting eastern weapon proficiency.
As a note on this though, I do restrict classes and archetypes to respective civilizations and allow players to unlock these by fighting x amount of the enemy, they can from that point on retrain or wait until their demise to reroll
My reasoning is that it allows the world to seem more alive to me, in the sense that different cultures would have different combat styles.
Of course it depends on how you want your setting though

Blackwaltzomega |
bookrat wrote:One thing that I guess is kind of a house rule but really shouldn't be:
I actively encourage my players to change the flavor of classes in order to make the mechanics work for the type of character they want to role play. For example, one of my players once converted the ninja class into a gypsy. The ninja's ki pool was flavored as gypsy magic, shurikens became small throwing knives. All the mechanics were identical, just the flavor was different.
I really like this idea, and it fits with a campaign that I'm going to be putting together. Ninja, Samurai and Gunslinger are things that won't really fit the theme...but if I can retheme them instead of outright denying my players from playing them, it'd be great.
So...Ninja to Gypsy...
How to go about doing the same with Samurai and Gunslinger?
Samurai has a lot of overlap with the cavalier as it is, so maybe just a style of knighted that does things a little differently? I'm not sure, that one's a little trickier. I do like flavoring Ninjas as thieves who have experimented with mystical talents to a greater extent than your regular rogue at the cost of not being as good with machinery like traps.
Gunslingers are pretty easy. Make the Bolt Ace archetype mandatory and just fluff them as professional soldiers their grit and deeds being the fruit of military training. Archers were a real terror on the battlefield, but trained crossbowmen were far more common when it came to soldiering.

gamer-printer |

There's a 3PP archetype by Rite Publishing Way of the Samurai (PFRPG) called the Teppou Bushi which is a gunslinger-musket specialist of the samurai (buke) social caste. Thematically this archetype is a samurai, but build wise it is exclusively a gunslinger with some samurai attributes and distinctions of honor.

Mythic Evil Lincoln |

Well, Samurai is basically a cavalier. And that's well and good, because that's what they were historically anyway. People get so hung up on the aesthetics of these things, it makes them blind to the very universal nature of certain warrior castes.
I think the gunslinger ought to have been named the sharpshooter, and that their powers should have been more broadly applicable anyway. It's a simple enough change to make.
But in general, it's easier to just call the classes what they're called and focus on how they're interpreted in the setting. I've seen many a "barbarian" who was not themed as primitive nor rage-filled. Just do the same here.

gamer-printer |

Now that I understand the OP, I know my other post was misplaced...
I think samurai would make for a fine military officer, member of an elite cavalry unit, skilled in sword (replace katana with a sabre), equestrian techniques, with a battlefield endurance to steel himself against the rigors of war (an explanation of resolve). Being a member of a cavalier or samurai order fits well.
A ninja, by any other name is a special operations commando skilled in reconaissance, and a pool for secret talents (call it something other than Ki). Consider that there are rogue talents for cantrip and 1st level spells. Isn't it a better choice to have access to more mystical abilities such as those among ninja tricks. There's nothing distinctly oriental except for the words: ninja and ki, replace them so you have a class that fits any elite recon-commandos of any culture.
If you allow firearms in your game, I don't know how better to reflavor gunslinger aside from changing its name. Any number of other themes like pirate, musketeer, armed robber, a mad scientist with something new (gunpowder) skilled with his own invention... a little imagination can easily nudge a gunslinger to a cause beyond his weapon and not make it so alien. Otherwise there are spellslingers that more resemble specialist wizard types than what the class normally is.

bookrat |

It's me! I feel honored. Thank you.
When I go about reflavoring classes, I first strip them of all flavor text and just look at the bare mechanics. Then I try and think of a way to apply those mechanics to something else that seems cool.
What can we do with this? Without stretching too far from the base flavor, I immediately think of any mounted standard bearer and/or clan champion. A Dwarven standard bearer who uses a crossbow and hammer instead of a bow and katana can belong to a Clan (aka an order), and can get so focused on a single enemy that he doesn't notice others around him. The last Saumarai I played was a dwarf who used a hammer and rode a giant lizard with a climb speed (the lizard was used by the dwarven clans for tunnel fighting against orcs).
Going a little bit further, I envision an angel-like entity where the halo is the banner, or perhaps a military captain who wears a helmet with bright feathers sticking out so his own can see him. A champion of battle, so to speak. What about a boy and his dog (a halfling and his dog mount)? The "Resolve" points are luck points, the bow is a sling (or thrown rocks), and he's just so good-natured that a glow appears about him to inspire his allies. What if instead of a bow it was a gun and instead of a melee weapon it was a lasso? Change out the banner for an iconic cowboy hat and you have a 19th century western sheriff a la Wyatt Earp. Going down that road, any sheriff with a badge could fit the role, or any character with any sort of iconic gear that would inspire enemies and use a mount.
There is so much potential with this. As I mentioned in the thread linked in the first post, I worked with some others to build a slinger using the gunslinger's mechanics. A literal slinger using the sling as the ranged weapon. Pistol-whip becomes using the sling like a mace, grit points can be luck points if a halfling, or any other points for whatever flavor you're going for. When the gun jams, it's actually the sling just breaking, and quick clear becomes quickly making a new sling out of some spare cloth. Stop Bleeding becomes quickly binding a wound with the sling cloth.
What if we completely flip the concept around? How about a Harry Potter-esq wand caster? They're not bullets, they're mini fireballs or magic missiles or whatever. It doesn't matter, it just targets touch at the first range increment. And I just noticed that this concept was already brought up by Petty Alchemy.
Ok, where can we go next? I've always thought crossbows could use an update. That's a simple changing of weapons. What about someone who shoots enemies with some sort of magical blast from their hands? On a roll of a 1, you have some sort of magical buildup that requires you to spend a "magic point" to realign your chakra and clear the magical blockage.
Oh! Let's go steampunk and magic! Let's keep the gun, but change it's mechanics. What is a gun? It's just a tube that propels a small bead with some sort of propellant. So let's strip it down and change how it works. Take away gunpowder and what propels the bead? What about steam? How do you create steam? A bit of water heated up creates steam, and in an enclosed area that could create enough force to propel the bead. Let's pretend it does and it all works. How about a bit of magic and prestidigitation? Give your tube-slinger a bit of magic to heat up the water and shoot the bead out, and keep the rest of the mechanics and flavor the same.