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Hi everyone, it's been a long time I didn't write some homebrews... but here is something I hope you'll love ! :)
Inspired by Dante's Divine Comedy, more precisely Inferno's Circle of Greed, comes the perfect mystery for slimy NPCs your players will love to hate, and greedy PCs your DM will love to submit to temptation.
Full of envy for the wealthy and curiosity towards the power that can drive the wisest men and women mad for riches, most oracles of Greed find solace in the shiny reflection of gold, cherishing the power they buy enough to inspire a kind of respect even among the foulest dragons. Those oracles often begin their life in extreme poverty or wealth, and are quick to money they revelations, visions and spells to the highest or most desperate bidder.
>>> Greed, a new Pathfinder Oracle mystery ! <<<
(Fellow roleplayers here who never saw my previous works, know that you can find much, much more options in my profile.)
I hope this one will bring something new and fun to your table... I know my DM will soon use this one for a big baddy that's sure to surprise and disgust my group !
- Brain-in-a-jar Maxximilius
Double-dipping Cha to AC is way too strong, IMO. Getting to use Cha instead of Dex is already really strong, and adding Cha as an armor bonus from Bling Armor makes it over-the-top.
I would get rid of Dealer's Grace. I think Bling Armor is awesome and hilarious, really cool flavor. But Dealer's Grace just doesn't seem that thematic to me and it's way too powerful.
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Thanks for your suggestions, RumpinRufus.
Actually, the Bling bonus was originally the same as the Bones/Wood revelation : a free, finite armor bonus of +4 becoming +6 at lvl 7, then adding DR at higher levels.
Dealer's Grace is just a rewrite of two existing revelations from Lore and Nature mysteries allowing you to swap Cha to Dex for the purpose of AC.
Stacking "twice" Charisma to AC may seem strong at first glance, but I invite you to consider a second look and note that Bling is actually strictly worse than the original revelation it is based on :
- to gain a relevant bonus, you need high Charisma (admittedly not a valid limit for an Oracle... but let's take a look at the amount required as the balancing factor : even with a 18 modifier, so a high average for low to mid levels, the best you can get is +4, the equivalent of a chainmail, and also the exact same bonus granted by a mediocre 1st level revelation)
- to enhance your armor further, unlike the original revelation, you actually need to carry "unused" riches, with all the risks involved with walking around as a living target to thieves
- said revelation and riches could also be emulated by just... wearing armor. The kind oracles are proficient with.
The only thing this combo allows is for low Dex and low Str oracles to have decent AC in combat and hold their own, at the expense of carrying capacity, awful damage potential, skill checks, vulnerability to ability damage and picking two whole revelations just to make it work. Is it good for its niche ? Yep, it was designed for it (actually, for a morbidly obese NPC almost unable to move who's also the greediest, richest man on the continent but is supposed to have weird divine powers granted by a greed devil).
This combo is also very unecessary for more balanced characters, because any optimized oracle could just pick a medium armor they are proficient with, a light shield and roll on without wasting two whole revelations.
I notice I forgot to mention the oracle cannot wield shields when using Dealer's Grace though, I'll make sure to mention it so that the numbers never add up to said vanilla-oracle-in-armor-and-shield.
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Actual armor has a max Dec limit, it slows movement, and it has an ACP. The revelation, as written, has none of those things.
My oracle will have +9 Cha next level (12), these revelations would give her AC 28 from revelations alone, without using any magic items whatsoever. Higher if she's holding bling. It's just too strong.
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Very good points. Although don't forget divine spells have no ACP, and light armor/mithral plate (which you would favor with Dealer's Grace for their high Dex bonus) do not reduce the base speed. I think the issue here is really with very high Charisma modifiers stacking.
I changed Bling Armor from "Cha as armor bonus" to "+4 armor bonus to AC" with a possible +1 bonus at 3rd level and every 3 levels later if the character uses enough riches to produce the Bling Armor, and a max Dex modifier of +4, 1 every 5 levels later.
- Your 12th level character using the Greed mistery would have +6 max AC from Charisma, and up to +7 from the armor if you spend 9000gp and two revelations - so 23 AC with heavy investment (not counting shield and other protective items).
- A same level oracle of Nature with a celestial chainmail and 1 revelation could have +7 from the armor and +8 from Charisma - so 25 AC with heavy investment (not counting shield and other protective items).
Thanks again for your review.
A quick note on the Lust for Wealth ability. It's very cool, but the conditions on it are weird. Unnatural Lust already gives bonuses if a target wouldn't be attracted to an item, so foes are getting something like +8 or more against the spell which totally (or at least partially) negates the bonus to DC based on material value. My suggestion is to simplify it a bit. Make it just Unnatural Wealth as a spell-like ability 1/day and only able to target objects of material value, not people. Then extra uses at higher levels as stated. It's already a kind of situational spell and there are plenty of things that can ignore mind-effecting so it's not that powerful.
Also, the Final Revelation is really powerful. Granted, it's a capstone ability so it's supposed to be powerful, but you're getting a ton of abilities at once. Philosopher's Stone by itself is a capstone, so that plus Charisma to saves (on a Charisma focused class) and taking 20 on ANY Charisma based check is huge.
Otherwise I really like this design. All of the gold and material wealth focused powers are cool and it's extremely thematic. Well put together.
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Golden Eye seems a touch powerful. It's effectively both a detect spell and a scaling burning disarm that can be applied to any metal object, so not just weapons. It also has no limit to uses per day.
Personally I would make it function more like burning disarm, but removing the detection aspect, and also reduce its uses per day to 3+CHA.
So, 3+CHA times per day, a person can target a metal object in the possession of a creature and cause it to burn with passion, dealing 1d4 per 2 oracle levels. If the target succeeds a reflex save of 10+1/2 your oracle level + CHA, it may remove the item and cast it away to negate the damage. At 10th level a creature that fails its save still drops the object from the seering pain of the object's heat.
I agree with Kamenhero25's take on the Lust for Wealth ability.
As for the capstone, I'd get rid of adding CHA to all saves. There's a feat that let's players do this already, and if they want and it's allowed they can expend that resource on it. Without the CHA to saves I'd say that it's fairly balanced
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Kamenhero25 -> the ability is intended to work as per the spell for the purpose of its actual effect on a target, but otherwise, it is more restricted : it can only use valuable items as a focus, and the target does not receive the normal +4 bonus like the spell - instead, some creatures have either a penalty, a bonus or immunity against this ability, depending on the character's ability to deduce what´s most valuable to his enemies. So, no +8 bonus. I'll make it clearer as soon as I get home. :)
Ms. Pleiades -> to deal damage, Goldeneye only works on precious metals. It would not act as a burning disarm unless you wield a silver, cold iron, mithral or adamantine weapon. In my personal experience, those are not common in a typical low-to-mid level adventuring party besides mithral as armor, but considering it´s a standard to initiate and a move action to maintain within a melee danger area, I'll add a Fortitude saving throw for half damage, and limit its use to 1 round per day per character level, keeping the metal detection.
About the Capstone, it doesn't stack with Divine Protection since you cannot stack same type bonuses, but I'll make the skill check 1/day (and admittedly, level 20 balance has never been a concern for the Pathfinder system. As long as it strong, thematic and doesn't break the game, let´s roll with cool powers that will never replace a 9th level spell anyway).
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Kamenhero25 -> the ability is intended to work as per the spell for the purpose of its actual effect on a target, but otherwise, it is more restricted : it can only use valuable items as a focus, and the target does not receive the normal +4 bonus like the spell - instead, some creatures have either a penalty, a bonus or immunity against this ability, depending on the character's ability to deduce what´s most valuable to his enemies. So, no +8 bonus. I'll make it clearer as soon as I get home. :)
Ms. Pleiades -> to deal damage, Goldeneye only works on precious metals. It would not act as a burning disarm unless you wield a silver, cold iron, mithral or adamantine weapon. In my personal experience, those are not common in a typical low-to-mid level adventuring party besides mithral as armor, but considering it´s a standard to initiate and a move action to maintain within a melee danger area, I'll add a Fortitude saving throw for half damage, and limit its use to 1 round per day per character level, keeping the metal detection.
About the Capstone, it doesn't stack with Divine Protection since you cannot stack same type bonuses, but I'll make the skill check 1/day (and admittedly, level 20 balance has never been a concern for the Pathfinder system. As long as it strong, thematic and doesn't break the game, let´s roll with cool powers that will never replace a 9th level spell anyway).
My suggestion was allowing it to work on things other than weapons, so magic rings, headbands, or ornate belts. Effectively, it disarms an enemy of a single magic item slot. Don't know if that makes it too powerful, but it's certainly a very unique debuff to impose. Fort-save for half damage might do as a better save.
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I like what you have here. Here are some misc thoughts and ideas:
I could see Ms. Plediades version working well for the offensive version, but I think it should specify how long the burning effect lasts in the case of things that can't be cast off being targeted, like full plate. How about things like that allow no save for the wearer and at level 10 the fire effect continues for a set number of rounds if it cannot be cast off?
For a gold detection revelation, I would consider effectively giving the effects of a Miser's Mask and perhaps rounds per day uses of Arcane Sight -> Greater Arcane Sight -> Analyze Dweomer in regards to precious objects only?
All that said, I really like what you have here and I hope I didn't come off as too critical.
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I like what you have here. Here are some misc thoughts and ideas:
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On the front of "Trust Me", I think it's good in homebrews to emulate Paizo's sprinkling of 'trap' options. It helps balance bundles of features, can provide flavor when power isn't a concern, and continues the tradition of rewarding system mastery.
Different creative approaches with homebrew may be in effect though.
On the front of "Trust Me", I think it's good in homebrews to emulate Paizo's sprinkling of 'trap' options. It helps balance bundles of features, can provide flavor when power isn't a concern, and continues the tradition of rewarding system mastery.Different creative approaches with homebrew may be in effect though.
I can see your point and it was something that occurred to me as well, but I guess I just disagree with that design philosophy. It seems like such a waste to create something that could be useful with a little tweaking but isn't just because you have a trap option quota to fill. At the same time that disagreement leads to proposing changes that could be considered out of line with established power levels (all of the options are at least pretty good, therefore overpowered homebrew!)... it really seems like a no win situation. :p
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I'll answer a longer message later this day for all your advices, but I'd like to say that my design philosophy has always been to bring cool, effective but balanced options allowing for a wide range of gameplay styles and options. Picking powers should be a "hard" but rewarding task based only on what nice ability you want your character to receive and how fun to use and roleplay those powers will be, rather than finding which are actually worth your time. Said revelation may seem on the weak side, but it will litterally save your butt more than you'd want to believe, especially in roleplay heavy campaigns.
I don't believe in trap options that are a loss of time for everyone, fun for everyone around the table and lots of roleplay opportunities is my way to go. :)
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So :
My suggestion was allowing it to work on things other than weapons, so magic rings, headbands, or ornate belts. Effectively, it disarms an enemy of a single magic item slot. Don't know if that makes it too powerful, but it's certainly a very unique debuff to impose. Fort-save for half damage might do as a better save.
It already works on anything explicitely made of precious metal ;)
Finally, I removed the Fortitude Saving Throw, but now the gaze attack stops as soon as the oracle gets hit by any successful harmful spell or attack, meaning it's a standard to activate and a move to maintain for low damage, stopped by any hit that could break your concentration. The higher the party will be, the easier they'll be able to deal with this ability by just targeting the group's spellcaster once in a while, and the least likely an oracle will be able to exploit this ability instead of just casting a high level spell and be done with it. It will remain useful (for the special sights), thematic and handy for clever players though.The intent of this ability was basically to provide both a way to supernaturally perceives riches and the equivalent of a potential "disarm purse" or "disarm ring/jewelry" where you punish the greed or pride of your foe by making its riches betray it.
@chaoseffect > In order of your questions and suggestions :
- No, it cannot be sundered, it's a magical effect that grants armor bonus, much like mage armor.
- Good points and good ideas. Actually, I thought about your suggestion when writing this revelation, but came to the conclusion that characters who refuse bribery or would even put your butt in jail for attempting it would not be fooled even if I were to write some kind of ability bonus for it... depending on the way it would be designed, it would either mean being able to heavily influence the may NPCs react to you by throwing gold around without much consequences ; having a skill-win-button by spending ressources ; or having a weak power that does not really fit the thematic I wanted to hit - neither stroke me as interesting, so I wrote it so your character would have to find a way round bribing before actually benefiting from it. This way it remained interesting to see how you can roleplay your way around the situation and land a more satisfying jackpot later. Your suggestion makes a lot of sense, so I rewrote the ability to fit both objectives. :)
- The separate abilities didn't seem like they would be worth investing in a revelation on each... though I can see Ms. Pleiades's and your point. I nerfed both abilities to make them fit more naturally in a single revelation.
- I added a cool bit about Lust For Wealth that will justify the low amount of daily uses ;)
- Slight boost to the ability, but I maintain it pretty much as it is for it is a lifesaver much more than other revelations who are more straightforward for combat situations. Being able to actually avoid conflict beforehand or win opportunities back is really valuable.
- Nerfed final revelation to be more thematic.
Finally, you didn't strike me as "too critical", I enjoy all critics, especially when they are this constructive ! Thanks again for your time.
When I get some time, I might get around writing revelation for all other 6 deadly sins, complete with an archetype to be Oracle of Sins able to pick among all these revelations at high personal cost... :D