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So, I've been thinking about this for a while because this type of build could go very well....or very poorly. I believe I've came up with a good mixture that allows this type of buffing/casting divine character to thrive in and out of combat.
Race –
* Human
Class –
* Evangelist (Cleric archetype)
Alignment –
* Neutral Good
Traits -
* Mediator (+1 Diplomacy, +1 to DC of charm or compulsion effects that do not provide ongoing control and results in peaceful acts, such as calm emotions, sleep, or a suggestion to lay down arms.)
* Adopted: Faith Healer (+1 Heal & can be used as Day Job check)
Deity – Pharasma
Domain -
* Healing (or Resurrection)
Stats -
Str: 7
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 18 (+2 racial added)
Cha: 14
1) Evangelist 1: Bab +0 - ??? (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human)
2) Evangelist 2: Bab +1 -
3) Evangelist 3: Bab +2 - ??? (lvl 3)
4) Evangelist 4: Bab +3 - +1 Wis
5) Evangelist 5: Bab +3 - Heighten Spell [Sanctuary DC booster] (5)
6) Evangelist 6: Bab +4 -
7) Evangelist 7: Bab +5 - ??? (lvl 7)
8) Evangelist 8: Bab +6/+1 - +1 Wis
9) Evangelist 9: Bab +6/+1 - ??? (lvl 9)
10) Evangelist 10: Bab +7/+2 -
11) Evangelist 11: Bab +8/+3 - Divine Interference (lvl 11)
Race –
* Human
Class –
* Vanilla Cleric
Alignment –
* Neutral Good
Traits -
* Mediator (+1 Diplomacy, +1 to DC of charm or compulsion effects that do not provide ongoing control and results in peaceful acts, such as calm emotions, sleep, or a suggestion to lay down arms.)
* Adopted: Faith Healer (+1 Heal & can be used as Day Job check)
Deity – Abadar
Domains -
* Inevitable Domain (7/day uses of supernatural ability to "Command". Also has Command Undead and a few other good domain spells.)
* Martyr or Trade (Martyr has a weak Inspire Courage ability but Trade has a lot of benefits)
Stats -
Str: 7
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 18 (+2 racial added)
Cha: 14
1) Evangelist 1: Bab +0 - Heighten Spell (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human)
2) Evangelist 2: Bab +1 -
3) Evangelist 3: Bab +2 - Selective Channel (lvl 3)
4) Evangelist 4: Bab +3 - +1 Wis
5) Evangelist 5: Bab +3 - Quick Channel (5)
6) Evangelist 6: Bab +4 -
7) Evangelist 7: Bab +5 - ??? (lvl 7)
8) Evangelist 8: Bab +6/+1 - +1 Wis
9) Evangelist 9: Bab +6/+1 - ??? (lvl 9)
10) Evangelist 10: Bab +7/+2 -
11) Evangelist 11: Bab +8/+3 - Divine Interference (lvl 11)
Race –
* Human
Class –
* Evangelist (Cleric archetype)
Alignment –
* Neutral Good
Traits -
* Mediator (+1 Diplomacy, +1 to DC of charm or compulsion effects that do not provide ongoing control and results in peaceful acts, such as calm emotions, sleep, or a suggestion to lay down arms.)
* Savanna Child (Handle Animal is class skill and +1 bonus)
Deity – Apsu
Domains -
* Scalykind (Constrictor Snake animal companion)
Stats -
Str: 7
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 18 (+2 racial added)
Cha: 14
1) Evangelist 1: Bab +0 - Lingering Performance (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human)
2) Evangelist 2: Bab +1 -
3) Evangelist 3: Bab +2 - Heighten Spell (lvl 3)
4) Evangelist 4: Bab +3 - +1 Wis
5) Evangelist 5: Bab +3 - Boon Companion (5)
6) Evangelist 6: Bab +4 -
7) Evangelist 7: Bab +5 - ??? (lvl 7)
8) Evangelist 8: Bab +6/+1 - +1 Wis
9) Evangelist 9: Bab +6/+1 - ??? (lvl 9)
10) Evangelist 10: Bab +7/+2 -
11) Evangelist 11: Bab +8/+3 - Divine Interference (lvl 11)
Some Feats I'm interested in, but not sure if they'd fit, are:
1) Lingering Performance
2) Fey Foundling
3) Sacred Summons
4) Siphon Poison
I'm curious as to what people think is the stronger option of the 3 builds. My DC for Sanctuary should be high between my Wis score, Peacemaker, and Heighten Spell to where it's a more reliable option to stay alive than spending half my resources on armor. Sanctuary allows me to inspire, heal, buff, or summon monsters without much worry as I'll be immune from direct attacks for the majority (if not all) of the fight.
Thoughts & Suggestions? I'm focusing this character down as I'll be playing my 3 scenario credit PFS Cleric this evening and I'm wanting to make sure I pick the path that is the most effective.
Dwarven cleric like this one is best!
Stone plate is awesome!
Pick the right two domains and your movement rate is 30 all the time and 40 when you use longstrider!
Dwarves are not slowed by heavy armor!
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Thoughts on the 3 builds in order of strongest to weakest and feat suggestions would be most helpful.
The character concept is to prevent people from being able to attack me (Sanctuary DC will be too high for most all enemies and if they succeed I just recast Sanctuary and make them succeed vs a new spell). Also, I kind of like the idea of Siphon Poison or making the Heal skill useable as a day job check via Faith Healer and having it decently high for Heal death investigation checks, disease, and poison checks.
Naturally I'm not going to want to break Sanctuary so Summon Monster and Buff spells are my go-to option. The Serpent Cleric build provides a Constrictor Snake equal to my level that can be buffed and used to grapple and kill enemies for me, while the enemies aren't able to touch me (leaving me freely able to heal my AC or allies).
I've also thought about Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Spell Specialization, and Greater Spell Specialization as options and using the spells Dismissal or Plane Shift to just force enemies to "get the heck out of here". I'm thinking this could be a strong option also, but I'd like some suggestions from you all.
Is this for PFS?
I would recommend Reach Spell and Quicken Spell for ranged spontaneous healing.
If you have the feats for it, pick up Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) as the familiar can either be used to cast spells as a bonded item (this item is especially useful), then at later levels pick up metamagic adept so you don't increase the casting time when you cast spontaneously to use cure spells. If you are playing til 20th level, Greater Eldritch Heritage can let you boost your Abjuration DCs by another +2 on top of Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, as well as giving you more uses per day of metamagic adept.
Since you have Heighten Spell already, Preferred Spell could be useful if you take Heal and/or Breath of Life.
Improved Initiative is always good, and mixes well with a familiar that gives +4 initiative.
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Is this for PFS?
I would recommend Reach Spell and Quicken Spell for ranged spontaneous healing.
If you have the feats for it, pick up Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) as the familiar can either be used to cast spells as a bonded item (this item is especially useful), then at later levels pick up metamagic adept so you don't increase the casting time when you cast spontaneously to use cure spells. If you are playing til 20th level, Greater Eldritch Heritage can let you boost your Abjuration DCs by another +2 on top of Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, as well as giving you more uses per day of metamagic adept.
Since you have Heighten Spell already, Preferred Spell could be useful if you take Heal and/or Breath of Life.
Improved Initiative is always good, and mixes well with a familiar that gives +4 initiative.
This is for PFS.
I could probably go for Focused Study, which would qualify me for Eldritch Heritage and gain the +4 initiative bonus while using the AC in combat. I'm not finding the metamagic adept though. Where is it at?
Preferred Spell with Heal or BoF does sound useful, especially since I lose my ability to spontaneously cast healing with the Evangelist archetype.
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So, I'm leaning more towards this build now (as I've got about an hour and a half till the scenario starts) -
Race –
* Human
Class –
* Evangelist (Cleric archetype)
Alignment –
* Lawful Good
Traits -
* Mediator (+1 Diplomacy, +1 to DC of charm or compulsion effects that do not provide ongoing control and results in peaceful acts, such as calm emotions, sleep, or a suggestion to lay down arms.)
* Adopted: Faith Healer (+1 Heal & can be used as Day Job check)
Deity – Apsu
Domains -
* Scalykind (Constrictor Snake animal companion)
Stats -
Str: 7
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 18 (+2 racial added)
Cha: 14
1) Evangelist 1: Bab +0 - Focused Study (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human)
2) Evangelist 2: Bab +1 -
3) Evangelist 3: Bab +2 - Heighten Spell (lvl 3)
4) Evangelist 4: Bab +3 - +1 Wis
5) Evangelist 5: Bab +3 - Divine Barrier (lvl 5)
6) Evangelist 6: Bab +4 -
7) Evangelist 7: Bab +5 - Boon Companion (lvl 7)
8) Evangelist 8: Bab +6/+1 - +1 Wis
9) Evangelist 9: Bab +6/+1 - Siphon Poison....or? (lvl 9)
10) Evangelist 10: Bab +7/+2 -
11) Evangelist 11: Bab +8/+3 - Divine Interference (lvl 11)
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I find it painful to see Strength dumped down to 7, but it does sort of make sense, given that you're a technical pacifist. Make sure you have a plan to carry all your gear.
You rely very heavily on Sanctuary. I find that, for PCs who stay in the back rank, one rarely needs sanctuary. Sometimes it's a lifesaver, of course! Also, just threatening with a reach weapon and decent strength (even if you never plan to actually attack!) can get one a fraction of the protection given by sanctuary that is always on and that also protects your allies. Remember that Sanctuary is a Standard Action spell, PFS combats often only last 1-3 rounds, and your first round spell choice is often decisive.
You'd really like some way to cast Sanctuary as a Swift Action. This is possible by 7th level, if you invest heavily.
Here's a rather similar 1 point build Evangelist Cleric. It seems you are starting with something vaguely similar (sans feats), then trying to decide which way to go with additional resources.
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I find it painful to see Strength dumped down to 7, but it does sort of make sense, given that you're a technical pacifist. Make sure you have a plan to carry all your gear.
You rely very heavily on Sanctuary. I find that, for PCs who stay in the back rank, one rarely needs sanctuary. Sometimes it's a lifesaver, of course! Also, just threatening with a reach weapon and decent strength (even if you never plan to actually attack!) can get one a fraction of the protection given by sanctuary that is always on and that also protects your allies. Remember that Sanctuary is a Standard Action spell, PFS combats often only last 1-3 rounds, and your first round spell choice is often decisive.
You'd really like some way to cast Sanctuary as a Swift Action. This is possible by 7th level, if you invest heavily.
Here's a rather similar 1 point build Evangelist Cleric. It seems you are starting with something vaguely similar (sans feats), then trying to decide which way to go with additional resources.
I think my only option on getting Sanctuary quicked is an expensive metamagic rod or taking Additional Traits at 7th (and losing Boom Companion, -2 levels on AC) and then taking Quicken Spell at 9th level.
I agree that the Reach Cleric approach would be effective, but as we've discussed in multiple threads, this just isn't the approach I want to take with this character.
A Heavyload belt and a Handy Haversack should do the trick for 99% of all my needs and wouldn't cost me very much.
Fights can sometimes last 1-3 fights if they are season 1-3 but I'm finding, at least locally, that fights are getting drawn out and people dying (and a lack of Clerics in general). I've been subject to quite a few drawn out fights and sometimes creatures with fly or teleport that go for the weaker members. Also, IDK if it's local but generally if enemies see a divine caster they go straight for them first due to their good aura being detected or seeing the Cleric use a holy symbol. Maybe it's a little more rough at my local area (and we have 6-7 GM's, most of which follow with the "If someone is healing then they get focused" mindset). Regardless of whether it's right or not, that's how it goes and Sanctuary imo provides a better approach to avoiding damage than what AC can usually provide. Also, playing the AC game usually doesn't work unless you spend like 80% of your gold on gear to boost it above the "curve."
EDIT: Sanctuary also helps vs ranged targetted attacks and ranged targetted, or touch targetted, spells since anything directed at you has to succeed a will save. Those points alone blow a Cleric's AC option out of the water since their touch AC is horrible. Just another benefit I would like to point out.
It's also not mandatory to cast Sanctuary as my 1st spell either, since being in the back lines will usually put me out of harms way. If enemies can teleport or theirs certain concern I could then Sanctuary as soon as possible, but other than that I'm probably safe to cast something else. Without Sanctuary up I'd be in the same boat as a Wizard, except I'd have more HP.
I did check out the 3 summoning feats suggested in the build you linked. Looking at my open feat slots I'd be lucky to get 2 of those 3 feats in. Divine Barrier is on par with Divine Interference. Boon Companion, Peacemaker, and Heighten Spell are all necessary, in my opinion, for this build. Which leave me with 2 feat slots available (currently Siphon Poison and Focused Study).
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If a Cleric stays at the back of the party to buff and cast, yet incidentally carries a longspear, is that PC a 'reach cleric'? I consider a 'reach cleric' to be a primary martial combatant (a type of Battle Cleric) who invests resources in being good at combat. A reach cleric carries a reach weapon for the action economy advantage, and the defensive effect is secondary. That's not what I was suggesting. I suggested the option of merely carrying a reach weapon, primarily for the defensive value. More like, "be minimally competent at melee combat and happen to carry a longspear, because it's the best defensive option". That sounds more like a Support Cleric than a Battle Cleric.
Don't look like a Divine Caster! Seriously, if your foes tend to go straight for the Cleric, don't look like one! Perhaps wear a Fools Hat and gaudy clothing, to look like a Bard. Foes don't generally go straight for the Bard!
I used to play a Fighter who looked like, and acted like, a Wizard. Foes would always try to get up in his face, only to discover he was a Fighter double-specialized in daggers. Worked great!
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If a Cleric stays at the back of the party to buff and cast, yet incidentally carries a longspear, is that PC a 'reach cleric'? I consider a 'reach cleric' to be a primary martial combatant (a type of Battle Cleric) who invests resources in being good at combat. A reach cleric carries a reach weapon for the action economy advantage, and the defensive effect is secondary. That's not what I was suggesting. I suggested the option of merely carrying a reach weapon, primarily for the defensive value. More like, "be minimally competent at melee combat and happen to carry a longspear, because it's the best defensive option". That sounds more like a Support Cleric than a Battle Cleric.
Don't look like a Divine Caster! Seriously, if your foes tend to straight for the Cleric, don't look like one! I used to play a Fighter who looked like, and acted like, a Wizard. Foes would always try to get up in his face, only to discover he was a Fighter specialized in daggers. Worked great!
I see what you mean; having the spear for looks. One thing I did overlook, since I'm mainly support Flagbearer could be a great option, which ties up 1 hand but that's no big deal. It doesn't require any actions to activate.
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Would you say Flagbearer effectively replaces the need for the Evangelist archetype?
There's the Evangelist's Spontaneous Casting List but not much else other than that. The Inspire Courage does improve but it requires an action of some sort depending on level (standard, move, swift) and Performances per day may be somewhat limited.
Spell Level Spontaneous Spell
1st level command
2nd level enthrall
3rd level tongues
4th level suggestion
5th level greater command
6th level geas/quest
7th level mass suggestion
8th level sympathy
9th level demand
Not going Vanilla Cleric -
I'm losing Medium Armor Prof, Shield Prof (not a big deal if it's Darkwood or Mithral though), 1 domain, and ability to spontaneously cast Cure spells.
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Flagbearer stacks perfectly with bardsong. The two abilities enhance and augment each other. Around 8th level you can acquire the Banner of the Ancient Kings (requires Lands of the Linnorm Kings). This gets a +5 +5 combat bonus for your whole team, which is simply incredible. Each time such an ally turned up in PFS play this ally was clearly the MVP and primary damage dealer (without drawing a weapon). Thing is, it's possible to do this and still be good at something else. E.g. melee combat, summoning, support casting, offensive casting, knowledge, whatever, but pick only one.
Until you reach 7th level you must be resigned to your first Standard Action in every combat being Inspire Courage. I've found one can get by just fine without Lingering Performance. Even without it, one hardly ever runs out of Inspire Courage. I believe Magda ran out of Inspire Courage twice, in her entire career, and that only amounted to missing buffs for 3-5 combat rounds. 3-5 combat rounds during your entire career is not worth a feat. After about 4th level there's no point in even tracking it closely, as you always have enough.
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Flagbearer stacks perfectly with bardsong. The two abilities enhance and augment each other. Around 8th level you can acquire the Banner of the Ancient Kings (requires Lands of the Linnorm Kings). This gets a +5 +5 combat bonus for your whole team, which is simply incredible. Each time such an ally turned up in PFS play this ally was clearly the MVP and primary damage dealer (without drawing a weapon). Thing is, it's possible to do this and still be good at something else. E.g. melee combat, summoning, support casting, offensive casting, knowledge, whatever, but pick only one.
Until you reach 7th level you must be resigned to your first Standard Action in every combat being Inspire Courage. I've found one can get by just fine without Lingering Performance. Even without it, one hardly ever runs out of Inspire Courage. I believe Magda ran out of Inspire Courage twice, in her entire career, and that only amounted to missing buffs for 3-5 combat rounds. 3-5 combat rounds during your entire career is not worth a feat. After about 4th level there's no point in even tracking it closely, as you always have enough.
Well, I did end up using all my Performances (8 total) during "The Confirmation" yesterday but as I keep leveling up it'll be less and less of an issue. I forgot about the Banner of the Ancient Kings, a great choice and I'll have to get that as soon as possible.
Any suggestions on my feat progression? I went with the Evangelist Cleric of Apsu with Scalykind domain for the Constrictor AC.
What I have so far:
1) Eye for Talent (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human)
What I plan on taking later on:
3) Flagbearer (lvl 3)
5) Divine Barrier (lvl 5)
7) Heighten Spell -- for Sanctuary, +3 DC (lvl 7)
9) Boon Companion (lvl 9)
11) Divine Interference (lvl 11)
Divine Barrier is for followers of Apsu only. You expend 1 use of channel to use an immediate action against an Area of Effect spell (such as Fireball) and if allies fail the save they take 1/2dmg, if they succeed the reflex save vs the spell they take no damage.
Peacemaker increases DC for Sanctuary by +2, also increases DC for other spells that dissuade aggressive action (essentially a Spell Focus & Greater Spell Focus rolled up in 1 for certain spells).
I feel like putting Boon Companion off for a while is going to be pretty painful....but maybe it's the weakest feat out of them all? -2 to AC's level, but rest of feats are really strong.
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Flagbearer stacks perfectly with bardsong. The two abilities enhance and augment each other. Around 8th level you can acquire the Banner of the Ancient Kings (requires Lands of the Linnorm Kings). This gets a +5 +5 combat bonus for your whole team, which is simply incredible. Each time such an ally turned up in PFS play this ally was clearly the MVP and primary damage dealer (without drawing a weapon). Thing is, it's possible to do this and still be good at something else. E.g. melee combat, summoning, support casting, offensive casting, knowledge, whatever, but pick only one.
Until you reach 7th level you must be resigned to your first Standard Action in every combat being Inspire Courage. I've found one can get by just fine without Lingering Performance. Even without it, one hardly ever runs out of Inspire Courage. I believe Magda ran out of Inspire Courage twice, in her entire career, and that only amounted to missing buffs for 3-5 combat rounds. 3-5 combat rounds during your entire career is not worth a feat. After about 4th level there's no point in even tracking it closely, as you always have enough.
Well, I did end up using all my Performances (8 total) during "The Confirmation" yesterday but as I keep leveling up it'll be less and less of an issue. I forgot about the Banner of the Ancient Kings, a great choice and I'll have to get that as soon as possible.
Any suggestions on my feat progression? I went with the Evangelist Cleric of Apsu with Scalykind domain for the Constrictor AC.
What I have so far:
1) Eye for Talent (lvl 1), Peacemaker (human)What I plan on taking later on:
3) Flagbearer (lvl 3)
5) Divine Barrier (lvl 5)
7) Heighten Spell -- for Sanctuary, +3 DC (lvl 7)
9) Boon Companion (lvl 9)
11) Divine Interference (lvl 11)** spoiler omitted **...
Any thoughts/suggestions? No input so far.