grapple and costriction total damage

[francesco serafini]

I'm a bit confused about the total damage taken by a creature costricted.

Example given:

SNAKE, costrictor
Melee bite +5 (1d4+4 plus grab)
Special Attacks constrict (1d4+4)

So the amount of damage taken per round of costriction is 2d4+8 or just 1d4+4?

The prd says:

Quote:

Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).

I assume the snake deals 2d4+8 damage per round

Quote:

Constrict (Ex) A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

I assume I'm a bit confused now.

[claudekennilol]

It bites. If it hits it deals 1d4+4 damage. Then it gets a free grab attempt. If the grab is successful it gets to constrict for free for 1d4+4 damage.

Later on when it tries to maintain its grapple, assuming it does, it deals 1d4+4 damage and can then can pick whichever it wants for its "grapple action".

[MurphysParadox]

Constrict is absolutely free damage done by a creature to their grappled victim. It happens every round in which the creature as something grappled (including the first) because it is triggered by the grapple check made to initiate or maintain a grapple. This is 1d4+4 free damage.

Every round, a grappler may do one of several things to their target, one of which is to do natural weapon damage without making an attack roll. This is 1d4+4 free damage.

So, the snake attacks a deer and hits, does 1d4+4 damage from bite, then makes a grab roll. It succeeds, does 1d4+4 damage from constrict (total this round: 2d4+8).

Next round, the snake rolls to maintain the grapple and succeeds, does 1d4+4 constrict damage, then decides to do an auto-hit melee attack, dealing 1d4+4 bite damage (total this round: 2d4+8).

Third round, the snake rolls to maintain the grapple and succeeds, does 1d4+4 constrict damage, then decides to pin the deer. The snake does not do any bite damage, but the deer is now pinned (total this round: 1d4+4).

Lastly, your bolded section of Constrict rules is just to provide a 'rule of thumb' for determining constriction damage. Unless otherwise indicated, creatures with constrict should do the same die+bonus damage with constrict as they do with their standard melee attack. It is useful for building new creatures or modifying existing ones, that's all.

[francesco serafini]

Thanks for your help.

Assuming the grappler is an Azata Lillend which had grabbed an enemy...
can it make a sword hit (non natural attack?)for free, against the grappled?
The Lillend can't auto-hit with the tail, since it is used in grappling (and can't "slap"), but she can hit with a sword without attack roll...

[Shane LeRose]

-20 to grapple with a single limb. The lillend grabs with the tail, but uses her "whole body" in the grapple.

When I would summon one (towards the end of Carrion Crown) I'd have her just use her tail as a primary attack after she started a bard song. Worked out pretty well.

Move action to sing (giving everyone a +2, including herself). Standard to make a tail attack at +13 for 2d6+7 damage and a grapple check at +19 for another 2d6+5.

My apologies for bragging, but I'm just super proud of that strategy.