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Is it what happens when a wilderness Ranger breeds with an urban Ranger, and the kid reads a ton of books about history, culture, travel, and geography, learns a bunch of martial maneuvers, and goes a' wandering? Why, yes. Yes it is.
There it is. Is it underpowered? Overpowered? Needs adjustment?
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Few wording questions: Does Participant Observer allow you to roll Perform checks with twice your Charisma modifier and your Intelligence modifier? Does it let you make Profession checks as if you were not untrained?
And now, an access concern: From what I've seen, Scarlet Throne is the warlord's Thing, and using it in other classes is frowned upon. Would you say swashbuckling is a part of this class's identity?
And finally, a concern with the capstone: You know you're breaking the "rule" that you can't add your ability score to a statistic more than once, right? (Personally, I'm opposed to that FAQ, but if I don't bring it up, someone else will.)
Other than those concerns, I like it. Pretty nice "clever vagabond" identity.
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Rover: super-solid name for a class, A+. Execution isn't exactly what I imagine when I read the name, but it works.
Chassis: Full BAB + d10 HD + 8 base skills + two good saves is probably too much. Makes it look really good compared to ranger or rogue -- and as an initiating class, this class doesn't have weak class features. Probably needs toning down. Considering the Int-focus of the class, 6 + Int skills seems OK, but if you want to up that relative to the ranger, maybe reduce the BAB/HD (Pathfinder's insistence that those move together annoys me, but oh well) or nix one of the good saves?
Weapons and Armor: Whip is an awesome call, nice. The rest is pretty standard.
Maneuvers: Look fine, as far as numbers and disciplines are concerned. The recovery method strikes me as very weak, though, even worse than the stalker's. Then again, I tend to not like Path of War's recovery methods much.
Well Read/Wilderness Study: You have two different names for this, one in the table and one in the text. Anyway, Int instead of Wis on Perception and Survival; nice enough.
Rover's Focus: Like this way better than Favored Enemy.
Participant Observer: Kinda weird, but neat and fluffy. Cool.
Bonus Feat: Yeah, gonna just say I like that it doesn't have restrictions. I get the point of them, but most of the time they just feel unnecessary, and this is a good class for having none.
Knowledge of the Brain: What's with things being out of order? Anyway, more swapping things to Int instead of Wis, Will and Sense Motive this time. Feels right to me; on a weak-Will but Int-focused class, Int-to-Will is a good choice. Sense Motive is cool too.
Esoteric Learning: Rover's learning a lot of maneuvers, but eh. You don't get to ready more, so it doesn't seem like that great an advantage. More fun, chance to pick up something unusual and make all rovers a little different from one another. Support.
Evasion, Woodland Stride, Improved Evasion: Ah so it is a ranger! Heh.
Intense Focus: Interesting, powerful, appropriate for 20th level. Nice.
Overall, very nice, just think the chassis is a tad bit too good. Ultimately, I don't think that's really going to cause problems, per se, but it is going to make this class start to look like the "right" way to do a skillmonkey, it seems to me.
Few wording questions: Does Participant Observer allow you to roll Perform checks with twice your Charisma modifier and your Intelligence modifier? Does it let you make Profession checks as if you were not untrained?
Sorry. Bad wording is my weakness. Participant Observer only allows you to add your Charisma modifier to Perform once, not twice. It does allow you to make untrained Profession checks.
And now, an access concern: From what I've seen, Scarlet Throne is the warlord's Thing, and using it in other classes is frowned upon. Would you say swashbuckling is a part of this class's identity?
I didn't realize Scarlet Throne was restricted like that. Warder can get it via archetype, so it doesn't seem too out of line.
Swashbuckling can be part of the class, yes. When I think of it, I imagine this or this or this or this. All of those seem to be asking for either Scarlet Throne or Solar Wind. The class is certainly versatile enough to break out of this mold I envision (if you are in a standard medievalesque setting, rather than Victoriana, the Rover should function just fine in most combat roles a Ranger could fill), but Scarlet Throne is, I think, thematic for a dashing explorer of the unknown.
And yes, I probably will do a gun archetype eventually, because this, and I do not believe in gun archetypes that don't give dex to damage.
And finally, a concern with the capstone: You know you're breaking the "rule" that you can't add your ability score to a statistic more than once, right? (Personally, I'm opposed to that FAQ, but if I don't bring it up, someone else will.)
Maybe erase that part? I'm not so good with capstones, really. I don't play at level 20.
Other than those concerns, I like it. Pretty nice "clever vagabond" identity.
Thanks!
Rover: super-solid name for a class, A+. Execution isn't exactly what I imagine when I read the name, but it works.
Thanks. I like Rover just fine, though I wonder a bit about the potential of Explorer. Good compromise is probably to keep Rover as the class name, and add Explorer as an archetype that gets access to terrain based features.
Chassis: Full BAB + d10 HD + 8 base skills + two good saves is probably too much. Makes it look really good compared to ranger or rogue -- and as an initiating class, this class doesn't have weak class features. Probably needs toning down. Considering the Int-focus of the class, 6 + Int skills seems OK, but if you want to up that relative to the ranger, maybe reduce the BAB/HD (Pathfinder's insistence that those move together annoys me, but oh well) or nix one of the good saves?
If I just drop skill points to 6 + Int, do you think it would be okay? It's still probably the best skill monkey except the Investigator at that point.
Weapons and Armor: Whip is an awesome call, nice. The rest is pretty standard.
I could not resist adding the whip :)
Maneuvers: Look fine, as far as numbers and disciplines are concerned. The recovery method strikes me as very weak, though, even worse than the stalker's. Then again, I tend to not like Path of War's recovery methods much.
I was having a hard time thinking of something there.
Well Read/Wilderness Study: You have two different names for this, one in the table and one in the text. Anyway, Int instead of Wis on Perception and Survival; nice enough.
Fixed. Well Read is the ability name.
Rover's Focus: Like this way better than Favored Enemy.
Thanks, but not my idea. It's Ranger's Focus from the Ranger's Guide archetype, just under a different name. I felt it fits better, since the Rover is all about seeing all sorts of things around the world, not about hunting specific things.
Participant Observer: Kinda weird, but neat and fluffy. Cool.
I was looking for something that shows the rover's roots in exploration and experiencing new and unknown things, as well as the idea that the dashing explorer is a quick study who has seemingly dabbled in everything.
Bonus Feat: Yeah, gonna just say I like that it doesn't have restrictions. I get the point of them, but most of the time they just feel unnecessary, and this is a good class for having none.
I didn't see the need to restrict it for a class with such a focus on learning a variety of things.
Knowledge of the Brain: What's with things being out of order? Anyway, more swapping things to Int instead of Wis, Will and Sense Motive this time. Feels right to me; on a weak-Will but Int-focused class, Int-to-Will is a good choice. Sense Motive is cool too.
Sorry. It was out of order because I chose abilities peacemeal, not from level 1 to level 20, and wrote stuff down as I came up with it. I thought I put it all in order after, but I missed parts.
Esoteric Learning: Rover's learning a lot of maneuvers, but eh. You don't get to ready more, so it doesn't seem like that great an advantage. More fun, chance to pick up something unusual and make all rovers a little different from one another. Support.
This is another one to showcase the explorer roots. A rover has seen interesting things, including interesting and new combat styles. Even learned a few things :) I like the idea of a dashing explorer who learned Veiled Moon or Black Seraph just a bit.
Evasion, Woodland Stride, Improved Evasion: Ah so it is a ranger! Heh.
I borrowed from Guide, too. I was just trying to balance wilderness skill with social skill and book knowledge, for a more Victorian explorer feel.
Intense Focus: Interesting, powerful, appropriate for 20th level. Nice.
Overall, very nice, just think the chassis is a tad bit too good. Ultimately, I don't think that's really going to cause problems, per se, but it is going to make this class start to look like the "right" way to do a skillmonkey, it seems to me.
Thanks!
It does allow you to make untrained Profession checks.
This is different from making Profession checks as if you were trained. Anyone can make an untrained Profession check, but "untrained laborers and assistants (that is, characters without any ranks in Profession) earn an average of 1 silver piece per day."
It does allow you to make untrained Profession checks.This is different from making Profession checks as if you were trained. Anyone can make an untrained Profession check, but "untrained laborers and assistants (that is, characters without any ranks in Profession) earn an average of 1 silver piece per day."
Yes, it would allow you to act as if you were trained.
Rating: Needs adjustment, but basically complete.
Altogether it feels like a solidly strong initiator and could probably fit in a party running PoW stuff. I think his recovery mechanic needs work, perhaps granting something else? What comes to mind for me that work for this kind of intense studying is:
-+2 bonus on counter attempts against a target your knowledge check succeeds on
-some kind of perception/knowledge bonus
-some kind of dodge bonus against a target your knowledge check succeeds on
I don't like that its basically the best skill monkey (besides Bards and Investigators) that also has full initiating. Feels like getting the best of both worlds. I don't know where I want to draw the line. Perhaps 4+ int modifier? 2+ is definitely too low. His class features already support his versatility with Participant Observer.
The bonus feats being implemented at random times feels weird. It is not bad at all, its just that both paizo and 3PP usually use a formula. I understand why they are there, and honestly they do nothing to overpower the class.
And yes, I probably will do a gun archetype eventually, because this, and I do not believe in gun archetypes that don't give dex to damage.
I'm not sure if I'm the only one getting this, but that link brings me to the flickr main page. I did manage to find the post you intended to link by cutting off "/in/pool-pith_helmets/", though.
Solid class! I'd let someone play it in my own games, given that clarification of its identity.