| CAHaugen |
It states under “Alchemy” the following -
“An alchemist can create three special types of magical items—extracts, bombs, and mutagens (…) Mixing an extract takes 1 minute of work (…)An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion (…)The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an alchemist's extract [See latter] is 10 + the extract level + the alchemist's Intelligence modifier. (…) [Continued via Bomb (Su)] Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert (…) In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. (…) Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years. (…) [Continued via Mutagen (Su)] It takes 1 hour to brew a dose of mutagen, and once brewed, it remains potent until used.”
This essentially states that it takes you one minute of work to make an Extract (Essentially a Potion), while: Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less, otherwise brewing a potion takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. [Brew Potion]
This makes little sense. So an Alchemist can brew an Extract (potion) in 1:120th of the time?
Swift Alchemy and Instant Alchemy apply to Alchemical Items, such as Sunrods and Thunderstones. Not to Extracts, Bombs, and Mutagens. I’m fine with this. So you create an Extract (Potion only you can use) in a minute, and a Mutagen in an hour. Unless this is RAI, in which case Extracts, Mutagens, and Bombs are also Alchemical Items - in which case we can suddenly go from:
Extracts: One minute to 30 seconds (Swift Alchemy) to 6 seconds (Instant Alchemy)
Mutagens: One hour to 30 minutes (Swift Alchemy) to 6 seconds (Instant Alchemy)
But nothing is listed for Bombs. No time frame is listed. At all.
Additionally, no DC is listed for Bombs. Even for Splash, unless you have something like Evasion, I don’t see a DC for avoiding it.
How long does it take to brew Bombs? If you brew 12 Bombs in the morning, are you making all 12 together or separately and one at a time? If I wanted 12 Extracts, that's 12 minutes of work. So do we just assume each Bomb takes 1 minute of work, so 12 Bombs is also 12 minutes? I understand you are making the Bombs during the Standard Action, so that they do not become inert, however you still create the liquid catalysts at the start of the day. How long does this take?
Does this also follow along the lines of being an Alchemical Item, so;
Bombs: One minute to 30 seconds (Swift Alchemy) to 6 seconds (Instant Alchemy)?
Also, what the heck is the Craft (Alchemy) DC for any of this??
And finally, you can only create a specific number of catalyst vials for your Bombs per day, which I'm totally fine with. But once created, they remain active for the Alchemist for years.
Doesn't this RAI that you could spend a full month crafting Catalyst Vials and essentially have hundreds of Bombs ready for use in a single afternoon? You are not limited PER USE OF BOMBS PER DAY, but PER CREATION OF BOMBS PER DAY. Since they remain active for years, you could theoretically store craploads of CVs. The Bombs become inert upon mixing for use, but as long as they aren't mixed, you can have tons of them?
| CAHaugen |
Also:
the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch.
I'd love to know what exactly we have to buy and restock to make these bombs. I get it, they are magically infused with a little of our aura and that is why the Alchemist and only the Alchemist can use it.
But if that's the true case, it's all about the Alchemist's aura, then we're basically the D&D equivalent of Marvel's Gambit. What is the Material Component for Bombs?
After all, I highly doubt Fire Bombs, Immolation Bombs, Acid Bombs, Sonic Bombs, and Void Bombs have the same base components... or DC's for that matter.
Seems to me like the general idea was build for the Alchemist, but none of the math was...
| thejeff |
This essentially states that it takes you one minute of work to make an Extract (Essentially a Potion), while: Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less, otherwise brewing a potion takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. [Brew Potion]This makes little sense. So an Alchemist can brew an Extract (potion) in 1:120th of the time?
Except that Extracts aren't actually potions, sure. Other people can't use them, without the infusion discovery. He's limited to a certain number/day and a certain number prepared at a time. You can't really equate the two, since many of the things that make potions useful don't apply to extracts.
Also, what the heck is the Craft (Alchemy) DC for any of this??
No Craft DC, since it isn't crafting. Any more than wizards have to make rolls to prepare spells for the day.
In theory, by RAW, you can apparently mix as many catalyst vials as you want at a time and carry them with you as long as you want, but it really doesn't matter, since you missed the real limitation:And finally, you can only create a specific number of catalyst vials for your Bombs per day, which I'm totally fine with. But once created, they remain active for the Alchemist for years.
Doesn't this RAI that you could spend a full month crafting Catalyst Vials and essentially have hundreds of Bombs ready for use in a single afternoon? You are not limited PER USE OF BOMBS PER DAY, but PER CREATION OF BOMBS PER DAY. Since they remain active for years, you could theoretically store craploads of CVs. The Bombs become inert upon mixing for use, but as long as they aren't mixed, you can have tons of them?
An alchemist can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier.
It would be kind of cool to know what chemicals were needed for bombs of various types, but it's essentially fluff. Mechanically, you restock your lab and you've got what you need. Much like a caster keeps his component pouch full and doesn't worry about exactly what goes in it.
Or like nothing specifies what you're exactly buying with the money you spend crafting anything.| anlumo |
You missed a line there:
Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert
So an alchemist can create a bomb and throw it as a standard action. You don't prepare these in the morning like extracts. However, the writer didn't even attempt to explain the limit of bombs per day with that in mind.
I agree that the amount of time needed for a potion is excessive. Also, you can only do one per day. It makes them pretty much unusable, since you can't replenish your stock in the field.
| thejeff |
You missed a line there:
Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert
So an alchemist can create a bomb and throw it as a standard action. You don't prepare these in the morning like extracts. However, the writer didn't even attempt to explain the limit of bombs per day with that in mind.
I agree that the amount of time needed for a potion is excessive. Also, you can only do one per day. It makes them pretty much unusable, since you can't replenish your stock in the field.
You do prepare the catalyst vials ahead of time, but that's almost irrelevant, since the limit is uses/day.
| Rynjin |
You do "prepare" Bombs in the sense that you make a catalyst, and mix in whatever it catalyzes with right before you throw it.
But Bombs weigh nothing and cost nothing and take no "real" time to make, so it doesn't matter.
DC is listed, though you may have missed it since the Alchemist page is so unnecessarily DENSE.
"The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the alchemist's level + the alchemist's Intelligence modifier."
Craft: Alchemy doesn't come into this anywhere (though, fun fact, you can use Craft: Alchemy as your Craft check for Potions).
You're flatly wrong that an Alchemist is not limited by a number of Bombs per day. He can MAKE as many as he wants, as you point out, but the rules text shows...
"An alchemist can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier."