Lethal Unarmed Strike and nonlethal Sneak Attack


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

A brawlers unarmed strike lists this:

prd wrote:
Usually, a brawler's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

Sneak attack says this about nonlethal sneak attack:

prd wrote:
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

My read is that by RAW, because the unarmed strike is now normally lethal, I cannot perform sneak attack with the unarmed strike if I choose non-lethal. Would this be the correct read?

Shadow Lodge

No, if you choose to deal nonlethal damage with your UAS it is considered a weapon that deals nonlethal damage.

See the wording in IUAS: "Your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your choice." Note that the brawler "has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling." This wording indicates an equivalence in the ease with which the character - including the brawler - deals lethal and nonlethal damage.

"Usually" doesn't indicate the brawler is doing anything special when dealing nonlethal damage. It only indicates that most brawlers will choose to use lethal damage most of the time.


If you use a weapon that does lethal damage by default, you cannot get sneak attack bonus damage when you use it in a non-lethal manner.

If you use a weapon that does non-lethal damage, you can get the bonus sneak attack damage.

The brawler's unarmed strikes are really two weapons in one, a lethal punch and a non-lethal punch (or kick or whatever.) As such, a brawlers attack can be either and should qualify for sneak attack in both modes.

The basic idea is that a weapon designed to be lethal can't be used in a non-lethal manner (i.e. less efficient manner) and still "strike a vital spot for extra damage." A brawlers strike is equally designed for both modes of attack.

Scarab Sages

Ok. That just makes my snakebite striker brawler build better. Thanks!

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