Retraining Archetype: Cost

[tivadar27]

Ok, let's say I have a Fighter 4/Barbarian (Urban) 1. The Urban Barbarian has 4 alternate class features (modified rage, modified skills, modified proficiencies, replaced fast movement). By the rules, training out of this requires:

4 * 5 days = 20 days

However, another option is retraining class. I could easily retrain that single barbarian level to another synergistic class, and then train it back, at a cost of:

2 * 5 days = 10 days

Besides the fact that this seems a little silly and poorly thought out, I believe the above is true by RAW, so let me know if you don't, my real question is the following:

1) When I train back into Barbarian, can I then acquire a *different* archetype for free (since I previously had none of the replaced class abilities)? I think the answer is yes, though would like clarification.

2) Can I retrain out of Barbarian to Barbarian, so as to lose my archetype for only 5/7 days of training? Relative wording: "In general, it takes 7 days to retrain one level in a class into one level in another class." Note, it says "another" not "a different". I'm unsure on this, but I think if it's possible, the cost would be at 7 days, as Barbarian technically doesn't have synergy with Barbaran.

NOTE: I'm looking for a RAW answer to this, as this is for PFS.

Thanks in advance!

[The Archive]

As to point two, it's a different class. Archetype retraining wouldn't exist otherwise. The intent is clear.

Secondly, if this is for PFS, check the guide, additional resources page and the PFS boards.

Upon checking the additional resources, I find that PFS only allows traits from Ultimate Campaign, none of the systems. PFS, I believe, has it's own retraining rules. The details of which I could not say offhand, other than that you get a free rebuild at level one.

[tivadar27]

The Archive wrote:

As to point two, it's a different class. Archetype retraining wouldn't exist otherwise. The intent is clear.

Secondly, if this is for PFS, check the guide, additional resources page and the PFS boards.

Upon checking the additional resources, I find that PFS only allows traits from Ultimate Campaign, none of the systems. PFS, I believe, has it's own retraining rules. The details of which I could not say offhand, other than that you get a free rebuild at level one.

PFS uses Ultimate Campaign retraining rules for retrains after 1st level. It uses the costs listed there, but rather than time, has a particular prestige cost associated with it.

Archetype retraining rules exist for a good reason, even if you are allowed to retrain from Barbarian to Barbarian. Had I been a level 10 Barbarian, paying 4*5 is much cheaper than paying 10*5. It just so happens that it's cheaper to retrain the class rather than the archetype when class levels are low in some cases.

[tivadar27]

Anyone care to weigh in on this with regards to RAW?

[Dave Justus]

Assuming you train from Barbarian(Urban) to Fighter you could could train from Fighter into Barbarian(Armored Hulk) or whatever archetype you wanted.

RAW You can't train from Barbarian(Urban) directly into Barbarian(Armored Hulk). This is what the archetype retraining rules are for.

You are correct that your specific example ends up being kind of silly, but mostly that is because you have only one level in a very front loaded archetype. Probably for a home game a GM would fudge it for you, for PFS you are more stuck.