The "How did you do?" thread has brought up a few discussion items about "The Treasure of Jemma Redclaw," but I was hoping to get a couple specific things cleared up.
For starters…
When you would defeat Master Scourge or Mister Plugg, display him next to this sheet. If he would escape, shuffle him into the location deck he came from instead.
Say you defeat one of these no-goods, but there's still an open location he could normally escape to. The second sentence kicks in.
Since the "Close the villain's location" part of encountering a villain happens before the "Check to see whether the villain escapes" part, does that mean you end up with a villain as the only card remaining in a closed location? That sequence makes sense to me, but the "shuffle him into the location deck" has me wondering...
Second question: Do the Scourge/Plugg villain encounters ever lead to extra Blessings going into open locations, whether defeated or undefeated? My guess would be no, since the "During This Scenario" text seems to change how you handle the entire escape. But it would be nice to know for sure.
Thanks!
In the thread you cite, Vic rewrote the scenario instructions in this post. So that would seem to be the definitive word.
If you still want to play the original instructions, in the same thread Vic indicated here that:
(1) If Scourge and Plugg can escape, they are not defeated; so you don't close their location or banish any cards.
(2) Instead of Scourge and Plugg escaping, you shuffle them into their location deck. Since there was no actual escape, no blessings are shuffled.
As you point out, the original instructions are problematic. Hence the rewrite.
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That thread is still up in the air, even Vic started his rewrites with "Let's try this" and then another change. I'm pretty sure nothing has officially been changed. His first rewrite fits closest to the original text and clarifies how it'd work, as opposed to the second which heavily changes how the scenario works.
Until something official is posted as a definite change, the first rewrite is probably your best bet. It plays the same as it original did, it was just more clear on certain parts.
That thread is still up in the air, even Vic started his rewrites with "Let's try this" and then another change. I'm pretty sure nothing has officially been changed. His first rewrite fits closest to the original text and clarifies how it'd work, as opposed to the second which heavily changes how the scenario works.
That's what I thought, too -- that the rewrites are potential fixes rather than official resolutions.
First rewrite:
When you defeat Master Scourge or Mister Plugg, do not check to see whether he escapes. If all locations other than yours are closed, display him next to this sheet; otherwise, shuffle him back into your location deck.
Second rewrite:
When Master Scourge or Mister Plugg is undefeated, do not check to see whether he escapes. If all locations other than the one he came from are closed, display him next to this sheet; otherwise, shuffle him back into the deck he came from.
When Master Scourge or Mister Plugg is defeated, do not check to see whether he escapes; display him next to this sheet.
I agree with Andrew; the first rewrite clarifies the original text, though it doesn't cover what happens if the villain is undefeated. The second is a whole other barrel of salted fish. Potentially displaying the villain even if you DON'T defeat him? That just doesn't seem right, somehow.
Thanks for the prompt replies and citations!
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Hmm, I did miss that lack of undefeated text in the first one. Vic did say here that with the original, if undefeated they did not escape to another location, and were shuffled back into their own. So basically:
Defeated: Display if all other locations are closed, otherwise shuffle back in
Undefeated: Shuffle back in
Which makes sense. The only difference between defeated and undefeated, since the intent is that they don't escape in this scenario, is whether they can get displayed or not.
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Okay, there was still confusion when we ran this Tues. The first time I ran this, we encountered Plugg, failed the initial check so he evaded back into the deck. We encountered all the other henchmen next and closed locations. We went back for Plugg and Scourge. Defeated without escapes so they were displayed.
On Tues, we encountered Scourge first. There were places to escape to. We beat his check to defeat. I was going to shuffle him back in with the rest of the deck. But someone brought up that you close the location before you check for escape. So I reread and said yes. We closed the location, banished the cards, and placed him face down on the location (for later). Game went along and we were able to peek to see where Plugg was and waited on him while we closed the other locations. We then took out Plugg and Scourge.
So was I wrong? You check for him escaping after you close the location which is after you win the check to defeat him. Or should he be played as if we don't close the location whether or not you win the check to defeat him depending on if he can escape or not.
I've continued to just run this scenario under my original interpretation, making Plugg and Scourge essentially act as powerful henchman (no need to corner them), since there has not been an official FAQ or errata and since Vic backtracked on his original clarification.
I really think the best solution to fix this scenario is to just have Plugg and Scourge act just like any other villain, except that when they escape after being undefeated you still use blessings from the box instead of the blessing deck. Then, when you would banish them (by defeating them and preventing their escape as normal), they go to the scenario sheet.
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Since Scourge and Plugg are still villains, I'd think you'd still have to corner them in order to defeat them. The only difference is that you don't have to shuffle them into a different location if they escape nor add blessings to other locations. They are supped up henchmen but if you defeat them, you can close locations automatically.
I ran into an issue this weekend where we were two manning the scenario. Two henchmen and Scourge & Plugg. Defeated one henchman first. Then found Scourge with the use of a Spyglass. Then we moved away to Festhall. (I think it was Festhall; that's the one that required us to banish an Ally to close?) We encountered the other henchman and defeated him. But no Allies to banish. So there was no way to dig through the rest of the deck to close the location so that Scourge & Plugg wouldn't escape (hadn't found Plugg yet). We ended up just acquiring what we could and prepared for Jemma. We found Plugg the round before Jemma; were out of position to use the Tower's power (to push her down the blessings deck!). Ended up just pumping a couple blessings into her defeat.
Since Scourge and Plugg are still villains, I'd think you'd still have to corner them in order to defeat them.
No, you don't have to corner any villains to defeat them. You just have to succeed in the conditions to defeat them to defeat villains. You check to see if the villain escapes after you defeat him. If the villain is then cornered, you either win or the villain is typically banished if there are multiple villains in the scenario. That is why I've read the scenario the way I have.
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Since Scourge and Plugg are still villains, I'd think you'd still have to corner them in order to defeat them.No, you don't have to corner any villains to defeat them. You just have to succeed in the conditions to defeat them to defeat villains. You check to see if the villain escapes after you defeat him. If the villain is then cornered, you either win or the villain is typically banished if there are multiple villains in the scenario. That is why I've read the scenario the way I have.
While I agree you don't have to corner Scourge and Plugg for the same reason you'd normally corner a villain but it does apply to the "if he would escape" clause. If they're not cornered after the defeat, they would escape and instead get shuffled into an empty location deck (since the closure occurs after the defeat but before the escape). Here's my other question, though, is the location closed?
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So if we defeat the villain (Scourge or Plugg) and he would escape but instead is placed back at the empty, closed location, can we explore that location later to encounter him again? I'd think so.
The real problem we had was not having an Ally handy to temp-close the third location (and failing the check to acquire the one that showed up). So we would have never been able to display Scourge or Plugg since the potential to escape was always present.