Atonement FIIIIIIIIST

[Losobal]

Having watched a bit too much anime this weekend (guess what one after this post) I was wondering how, if at all, such a weapon/effect might fall into the PF setting and how it might be tiered as a magic item.

Basically its a combination of at least two effects: Atonement and Dispel Magic.

Similar to a Holy Avenger, once per round (but as opposed to a standard action, it can be part of an attack/full attack) if the hit successfully err...hits, then it triggers a dispel magic (targeted) effect. Using the characters level as if caster level.

Similarly, punching equals 'atonement spell'. When fisted by justice....err...when hit by justice, it provides an atonement spell like effect, though it can't restore classes/spell powers.

Touch doesn't work, you have to hit them with the intention of doing normal full damage.

I dunno what to attach it to. Gauntlets maybe? 1 Gauntlet. Bracers?

[Rynjin]

Maybe just make it a +3 Bonus effect that you can place on any "Fist" melee weapon (Gauntlets, Cestus, Rope Gauntlet, etc.) and can also be used on an Amulet of Mighty Fists?

The second bit is mostly flavor, but a targeted Dispel on one of your attacks every round is pretty hefty. At least as good as Speed (also a +3).

[Bob Bob Bob]

So there's a lot going on here, let's see what I can bang out. First of all, there is a way to dispel on a hit. Dispelling weapon. Works like spell storing but only for dispel magic. Next is to make the item intelligent (+500 gp), special purpose (FIST OF JUSTICE), and give it the ability to cast dispel magic at-will (not on the table but a quick derivation gives us 30,000 gp for at-will third level spell). For Atonement it's a 5th level spell, so +90,000 gp. If you want it to both dispel and atone at once it's +182,000 gp for a quickened dispel magic to power the fist. None of this will be at caster level, but that's an adjustment to make later.

So if you want the atone or dispel fist it's a +2 equivalent weapon (8,300) intelligent (500) casts dispel magic (30,000) casts atonement (90,000). 128,800 and the price of the weapon for a CL 9 dispel magic or atonement.

If you want the atone and dispel fist it's +2 equivalent weapon (8,300) intelligent (500) casts quickened dispel magic (182,000) casts atonement (90,000). 280,800 plus weapon for CL 13 dispel magic on hit 1/round and atonement every round.

For changing the caster level to character level... that might actually be free? Just harder to craft. The ability cost is based on the base caster level but the spell casting is based on the item's caster level, which doesn't change its price at all. Just the Spellcraft DC to make it.

[Rynjin]

That's a bit much. First off, it's not Quickened Dispel, it's just Dispel on hit.

But that's beside the point. Weapons and armor aren't quite priced the same way. They seem to be arbitrarily assigned, honestly, because near as I can tell they don't follow the normal creation rules at all.

See the Righteous Armor, which costs 27k gp (added to whatever the armor already is).

By the item creation rules it would be a Command Word activated item:

Spell level (5, Righteous Might)xCaster Level (10)x1800= 90k.

Once per day: 90/5=18k.

So you have another 9k unaccounted for that doesn't really come from anything else that I can tell. Likewise Determination (which is the same spell level and caster level) costs another 3k additional.

See also the Luckblade. It grants one Wish (once, and then forever used) In addition to being a +2 Shortsword and granting a +1 luck bonus to saving throws and a re-roll once per day.

By all rights with one Wish it should cost 7.65k (9*17*50 for it being a one time use activated item) at the minimum, plus the 25k for the material cost (total: 32.65k).

Before even getting into the cost of the Shortsword (8k), and the bonus to saves (2k) for a total of 42.65k.

Of course, it actually costs only half that at 22.06k, less than the price of a Wish itself. Even if you take out the 25k material component for some reason, it costs 17.65k, well below the actual cost.

That's not even touching the re-roll ability, which I somehow doubt comes out to less than 4k in any spell equivalent system.

Weapons and Armor abilities and unique items are a whole 'nother ball game.

[Losobal]

It occurs to me on further reading that Atonement doesn't work on outsiders, which in a sense I was leaning to a "punch demon to death, the atonement part potentially prevents it from coming back as a demon, almost like a soul-energy obliteration' But that's getting more into Bleach territory, where killing Hollows with a soul slayer sword 'frees the soul energy to not be 'evil' anymore.

Hm, almost like a Disruption effect?

[Bob Bob Bob]

Quickened Dispel is just for casting Atonement and Dispel Magic in the same round. If you want to cast two spells in the same round then yes, you do have to price it as quickened.

Righteous Armor's extra 9k is clearly a +50% cost increase. Why I don't know, I'd guess because it's the cost increase for multiple powers on the same item.

Luckblade with a wish costs 62,360 (the 22,060 figure is for no wishes). The crafting cost is 43,835, which is 32,650 more than the crafting cost for the no wish version (11,185). You'll notice that's exactly equal to the cost you give us for 1 use wish.

No, weapon and armor abilities don't appear to be all that different from normal magic items.

Also, to OP, are you @#$%^&* kidding me? Atonement never destroyed or defeated outsiders. It's a spell to help people atone. It really does exactly what it says in the name. The one for temptation/redemption explicitly says nothing can change their mind but a sincere desire for what you offer. It's not a forceful attack, it's a gentle persuasion.

If you want to kill demons you need to know how your GM runs them. I don't think there's actual rules on whether demons permanently die. If you want to "guarantee" that you need Trap the Soul or Soul Bind, but at that point you're wielding Abyss, the stealer of souls, not the cleanser of souls.

[Rynjin]

Bah, I always read those backwards.

Regardless, you get the general idea I was going for. Many of those unqiue items with spell effects don't quite follow the rules. That extra 9k can't be for adding an extra effect, since that's not what it's doing, and even if it was it doesn't account for the extra 3k on Determination which should be the same price with that logic, but isn't.

For a better example, see the Dagger of Venom.

Which should be 5400 gp for the spell effect, plus 2000 for the +1 dagger part, leaving a cool ~900 gp unaccounted for.

The item creation rules are a guideline, is the point I'm getting at.

Just like you can't have permanent True Strike for 2000 gp because that's way too cheap, you need to do some price tweaking for items you're pricing as ludicrously expensive but not worth the cost.

In this case he has two spell effects, one pretty powerful (Dispel Magic on hit, mitigated if it's a low CL), and one basically flavor (Atonement, but without any of the game affecting features besides breaking forced alignment changes).

A +3-4 extra weapon quality reflects that far better (30-48k minimum) than some ludicrously priced 280k+.

That's double the price of a Luckblade with 3 Wishes. Hell, that's significantly more expensive than a 3 Wish Luckblade with a +5 enhancement (which is still only 200.96k), all by itself, without any enhancement on the blade.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Oh, you were just saying magic items are weird. Yes, I can absolutely agree with that.

And I would never use the price I gave if I was giving the item to a player, but there is definitely a rules-legal way to build a fist that casts both dispel magic and atonement every round. So at the very least it shouldn't cost more than that. The fist of dispelling every round is only around 39k (and gets a bonus equal to the fist's enhancement bonus). The big money add-on for the first one is atonement (70% of the price) and on the second one it forces us to quicken the dispel if it does both at once, adding 160k to the cost of the previous one. Plus the 90k for atonement itself, that's 87% of the cost? Either way, at-will atonement costs way too much for very benefit.