Stunned and drowning

[JackLuminous]

Hi,

I'm running the Carrion Crown campaign and currently in the Trial of the Beast module.

Spoiler:

There's this fight with two alchemical monk zombies in the cellar of two alchemist madmen that, according to what's written, try to go for the stunning fist and then proceed to try to drown the characters.

My question is, since when you,re stunned, you cannot take any actions, does that mean you cannot hold your breath? Which would mean that the drowning starts as soon as they miss their CON save?

The book only mentions "unconscious" in their drowning rule.

[That Crazy Alchemist]

Holding breath is not associated with an action. So no, you can still hold your breath even when stunned.

[blahpers]

As far as I can see from the drowning rules, holding your breath is not an action. You should be fine.

[JackLuminous]

I'm trying to make sense of the scene and the fight though...

How would they have ANY chance to drown a character if there are only 2 zombies and it takes them like 10 rounds to drown IF they stay underwater

[blahpers]

I don't have that particular module, so I can't really hazard a guess.

[That Crazy Alchemist]

Perhaps grapple? Stunning an opponent would make it much easier to grapple them. Then hold them under the water until they drown perhaps?

[JackLuminous]

Then again, 2 zombies would never succeed at that... it's a CR 2 encounter for a party of 5 level 4-5 players

[That Crazy Alchemist]

Oh, then I wouldn't worry about it. Those players were never in any danger of drowning anyway. Just make the fight as fun as possible.

[PrinceDogWaterIII]

I thought there was a standard or full-round action to hold your breath and fight in underwater conditions. Shouldn't that apply in this situation?

Edit : Whoops, I'm thinking about Internal Alchemist's Breath Control ability which extends your effective time to hours by spending a full round action.

[JackLuminous]

That Crazy Alchemist wrote:

Oh, then I wouldn't worry about it. Those players were never in any danger of drowning anyway. Just make the fight as fun as possible.

I will. I was just trying to make sense of the rules in that context. I do think that if the zombies are somehow able to bring a stunned character to an unconscious state (0 hp) by holding him underwater for a round, it would make for a fun fight, as I very much doubt that the character would have further time to drown, since the other players will be all over these 2 zombies in a second anyway.

All in all I'm just wondering why the zombies would even try this tactic at all instead of simply dealing as much damage as possible.

I also see a difference between getting a good lung-full of air before going underwater and being dragged under water abruptly when you're stunned. Wouldn't you?

[darth_gator]

Stunned and unconscious are two different things. A stunned character can certainly hold his breath as doing so isn't an action. However, since holding one's breath requires making a decision, you can't do it if you're unconscious.

[JackLuminous]

JackLuminous wrote:

That Crazy Alchemist wrote:

Oh, then I wouldn't worry about it. Those players were never in any danger of drowning anyway. Just make the fight as fun as possible.

I will. I was just trying to make sense of the rules in that context. I do think that if the zombies are somehow able to bring a stunned character to an unconscious state (0 hp) by holding him underwater for a round, it would make for a fun fight, as I very much doubt that the character would have further time to drown, since the other players will be all over these 2 zombies in a second anyway.

All in all I'm just wondering why the zombies would even try this tactic at all instead of simply dealing as much damage as possible, since stunning takes 1 round, getting hold of the character for grappling takes a round, dragging the character underwater for drowning takes a round (no more stunned)... and THEN holding him successfully for like 10 rounds? How's that suppose to work?

I also see a difference between getting a good lung-full of air before going underwater and being dragged under water abruptly when you're stunned. Wouldn't you?