Hi,
I've decided to adapt a 4e approach to some skills.
List of those removed/moved:
Appraise: Removed. You can appraise items with either a Spellcraftcheck(magic items) or a craft check(mundane items).
Climb: Moved to Athletics
Disguise: Moved to Bluff
Escape Artist: Moved to Acrobatics
Knowledge (Geography): Moved to Nature or Streetwise
Knowledge (Local): Moved to Streetwise
Knowledge (Nobility): Moved to Diplomacy
Spellcraft: Moved to Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Psionics.
Streetwise: Added. Humanoid Monster Lore and encompasses gather info, local, etc. Much like 4e.
Survival: Moved to Nature, Dungeoneering, or Planes
Swim: Moved to Athletics
Warfare: Added. Humanoid Monster Lore and knowledge based on path of war detecting maneuvers and kirthfinder's identifying/negating feats).
I've also decided to change the main stat on some knowledges: Dungeoneering, Nature, Religion all go to Wis. Nobility is Cha (Diplomacy) and Local is Cha (Streetwise) - though humanoids can be identified via warfare as well.
I know some will come and claim that all knowledges should be Intelligence, and while I understand that is a 3.5/PF core concept, I do not agree. So please let us not argue about that.
You can see the full changes here: http://marklenser.com/pfHouserules/skills
It's still a WIP - craft (alchemy), perform, and profession are not done.
It obviously pulls heavily from Kirthfinder and the 4e changes listed above.
Things I'd like some input on:
- Spellcraft moved to (Arcana, Nature, Religion, or Psionics) means it's harder for a Wizard for instance to identify Druid or Cleric spells. I understand that and accept that. However I would like to give a bit of "compensation" to these knowledge heavy classes.
- Survival - There are several classes that get survival, but not Nature. I'm considering giving all those classes Nature. It's a buff to them, but most of those classes are T4 anyways.
- History is much less valuable in comparison. 2 options: Remove it and make all ancient checks via the other knowledges (See warfare for example). Or move it to a "secondary" skills system which players can choose 1 per level for free.
For Spellcraft "compensation" I was considering creating traits and giving them automatically to some classes. Likely 1 trait free for each knowledge (all) class. (I give 3 starter traits (plus a campaign trait) and an additional trait at 3,6,9,12,etc.)
Some options:
- Int to Monster Lore for Dungeoneering, Nature, OR Religion
- Flat bonus (2) to All Monster Lore for Dungeoneering, Nature, AND Religion (cannot stack with above)
- Half Int bonus to Spellcraft for Nature OR Religion
- Flat bonus (2) to Spellcraft for Nature OR Religion
I'm pretty happy with #1 and #2. I don't have the same desire to have a bonus to ALL Spellcraft so it would probably be either #3 or #4.
Any input/feedback would be much appreciated.
I've been using Athletics, Streetwise, and Warfare skills forever now and can't imagine going back. Also rolled a lot of knowledges into other skills (e.g., Knowledge (nobility) into Diplomacy, as you did; and Knowledge (nature) becomes part of Survival).
I've been using Athletics, Streetwise, and Warfare skills forever now and can't imagine going back.
Ya what I have pulls heavily from you (with some 4e mixed in). I thank you for what you've created - I like nearly all of it.
And just so this isn't a pure fanboi post this is what I've semi-finalized with a player of mine for "compensation":
All classes with Knowledge (all)
Choose:
1. Int to Monster Lore for Dungeoneering, Nature, OR Religion
2. Flat bonus (2) to All Monster Lore for Dungeoneering, Nature, AND Religion (cannot stack with above)
All classes that originally had Spellcraft:
Choose: Half MAIN STAT bonus to Spellcraft for Arcana, Nature, Religion, OR Psionics (choices based on the knowledges they have as class skills)
I'm a bit iffy on Monster Lore for classes like Alchemist or Cleric that only receive some knowledges. Probably just give limit the choices to the knowledges that they receive.
Ya what I have pulls heavily from you (with some 4e mixed in). I thank you for what you've created - I like nearly all of it.
Wow -- thank you! I know for a certainty that I'm not the only one to independently do that sort of thing with skills, so it never occurred to me that I might have started you off in that direction. Pray carry on!
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after going back and forth, I settled on the most minimal changes as possible to the existing skill system. because reclassification, though appealing greatly to my organizational sense, doesn't seem it'd enhance the play experience enough to justify all the work it'd take in sheer conversion (on the DM's end of things).
One change: I renamed Climb into Athletics and gave it a lot of overlap with Acrobatics (jumping, moving through threatened squares, reduced fall damage) so that both ST and DX classes can do these things just in different ways (I imagine a Fighter using Athletics to avoid AoO's to look more like football than gymnastics). I keep Swim as a separate skill.
every other function I can think of can be covered by a skill already in the system.
except possibly Warcraft. unlike how easily Local can easily function as 'Streetwise' (though I admit the name is cooler!), Warcraft is not sufficiently covered by History and Sense Motive - there still seems to be something lacking.
If I added a skill to my mostly-intact system, I would probably add Warcraft. tell me more about identifying/negating feats? that sounds kind of cool maybe...