On the Other Hand: Can you take a feat without its prerequisite feat?


Rules Questions


I ask this meaning the following: Can I for example take the feat Improve Trip without having the feat Combat Expertise. I am not asking if you gain the benefits of Improved Trip, obviously you would not. But could you take a feat that requires a prerequisite feat but not that original feat.

Liberty's Edge

No.


Is there an official ruling on this, a page of the books, or a website?


CRB wrote:

Prerequisites

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.

here specifically


The feats chapter.

Prerequisites
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.

A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.


Alright, thank you.


No, you can't. Thing is, though, it would be an easier way to handle it all, given that you can already retrain your feats as you gain levels.


There are a few exceptions to the prerequisites for feats. As a class ability, rangers can get certain combat feats without having the prerequisite feats first. There are other classes but I don't know all of them exhaustively. If a class has this ability, it is clearly spelled out in the description so you could look into that but I can't think of any that give Improved Trip. Monk maybe? I could be thinking 3.5 though.

There are also ways to sub one ability score for another. Swashbuckler has a class ability that allows you to use Cha instead of Int to qualify for combat feats. The Guide to the Class Guides on the advice page has a link to a thread dedicated to swapping x ability for y.


Prerequisites are called Prerequisites because they are Prerequisites. The definition of the word 'Prerequisites' is very clear and non-negotiable.

Some class features let you bypass Prerequisites but in any other case Prerequisites are Prerequisites.

Sovereign Court

Sissyl wrote:
No, you can't. Thing is, though, it would be an easier way to handle it all, given that you can already retrain your feats as you gain levels.

Not sure I read what you are saying right but:

retraining feats wrote:
The old feat can't be one you used as a prerequisite for a feat, class feature, archetype, prestige class, or other ability. If the old feat is a bonus feat granted by a class feature, you must replace it with a feat that you could choose using that class feature.


He's saying that a lot of people take whatever for their first level feat and then retrain it into "power attack" or whatever once they level up. So if you could just take it in the first place and just not use it it would basically be the same but you wouldn't get use of a feat while you wait.

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