So, I'm a noob to Pathfinder and Tabletop gaming in general. I have been looking at information on the new Shaman class and the Arcanist, and I like the flavor of the classes, but I'm not sure how helpful they would be to the campaign I'm being invited to join.
The campaign is already level 8, and there are two other players, a dhampir necromancer with some minions and a half-orc rogue.
Which one of these classes would be more helpful in such a group? How do I build these classes? All advice is greatly appreciated. I just want to have fun while adding to our battle effectiveness.
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I'd suggest a simpler class for someone new to Pathfinder. Those classes are both in the Advanced Class Guide, which, as the name implies, is more suited for advanced players with greater system mastery. That being said, if you want to go with either of those, I'd lean more towards the Shaman,or alternatively, a Druid or Cleric.
If this is not a gestalt type game, then the Orc Rogue is probably a front-liner who uses the Dhampir Minions as flank buddies, am I correct? In that case, you're probably looking at the rogue as damage/skills with the minions allowing the Necromancer to stay back and hurl spells to keep them alive (undead) and kicking and hinder the badguys.
The party still lacks access to buffs and the ability to address negative conditions. Your job will probably be more in the support than the control/debuff or damage area. A Druid with a companion will allow you to stand back and support the party with buffs and address negative conditions on your friends while your Animal Companion helps keep the bad things away from you, and gives you access to a unique group of spells. A reach Cleric (longspear or a deity with a reach weapon like Shelyn), or a battle cleric, meanwhile, can dish out beats and buffs, and also gives you access to the full range of divine spells. A shaman would be a middle ground between the two, but because of their reliance on both Wisdom for spells and hexes and Charisma for Spirit abilities, would mean less of a chance for you to get in an mix it up yourself if you were so inclined.
I guess it falls to you to figure out how you want to assist the group, and go from there.
You need to figure out HOW you want to contribute, first and foremost, and address what weaknesses your party has. I recommend The Forge of Combat for all players of any level of experience.
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One level in Gunslinger, the rest in Cleric.
Pros
- Divine caster
- Great support
- Heals!
- When you aren't casting, you can be shooting holes into things.
Cons
- Loosens a GM's restraint on killing your party. Now that combat healing is a case. I'm sure not all gm's do this.
- Most of your turns can or will be devoted to healing.
- "That guy is healing! Get'em!" Become a priority target.
- Shooting in touch range puts you closer to enemies.
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Strange is right id lean shaman but
I would start with your core rule book classes. Trust me on this...you should start simple.
I recommend ranger. You will get spells...so you get practice casting alittle bit of spells. You get melee or ranged combat practice. And you get a animal companion so you get practice with pets.
The only non core rulebook feat I recommend is boon companion at level 5.
I recommend going ranged so you get practice with both melee (pet) and ranged combat. After your campaign you will have a strong grasp of the rules and fundamentals of pathfinder combat.
Your groups minions will offer plenty of front lines and flank partners for the rogue. Just stand in the back and shoot away.
I'll look into Druid. We don't have a point buy system, so if I can roll well, having both Wis and Cha isn't too tough.
GM says no guns, unfortunately, so no shooting stuff.
Yeah, the rogue is the backstabber while the necromancer's two Owlbears, one Orc, two Dire Boars, and Giant Tarantula smack the enemies around. I should definitely be a buffer.
I actually read the Forge Combat article yesterday! My main problem is not so much that I don't know what role I should play (I'm definitely more of the Arm, given we have the rogue and Giant Tarantula for hammering and the myriad bloody skeletons work to keep the enemy whacking away at resources that are regained at the end of battle) as it is not knowing what spells to take and how to properly build the class.
My experience in spellcasting is minimal. I made a level 3 half-orc sorcerer that was used for one session. I find spellcasting more interesting than my current build, a spirited charge Divine Commander with a Griffon mount (my second character I've ever made. I now see the error of relying on one tactic in battles that can be very varied in nature).
I guess what I'm really asking is the level of effectiveness of the Shaman (and druid, which could work well for flavor) at being an Arm and some advice on spells and builds that would aid me in being an effective arm. I would be buffing the rogue and the undead and keeping conditions off of them. We've been nauseated a few times and that really cut into our battle effectiveness.
Strange is right id lean shaman but
I would start with your core rule book classes. Trust me on this...you should start simple.
I recommend ranger. You will get spells...so you get practice casting alittle bit of spells. You get melee or ranged combat practice. And you get a animal companion so you get practice with pets.
The only non core rulebook feat I recommend is boon companion at level 5.
I recommend going ranged so you get practice with both melee (pet) and ranged combat. After your campaign you will have a strong grasp of the rules and fundamentals of pathfinder combat.
Your groups minions will offer plenty of front lines and flank partners for the rogue. Just stand in the back and shoot away.
Alright, that sounds good. I'll look into the ranger and the druid and see which one looks more up my alley. I have a problem of biting off more than I can chew a lot of the times, so I'm glad there are more experienced players out there to set me on the right path again. Thanks all of you for the advice!
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Druids are like swiss-army knives. They can adapt to almost any situation the GM wants to throw at you. Take Scribe Scroll so that you can begin an arsenal of spells that are only situationally useful (because druids have those in spades, those situations may arise, and then you look like a boss). With that many Undead running around, you probably won't need an animal companion unless you really wanted one, so perhaps instead take a cleric domain, and either go straight caster or widlshape/caster.
Candidly, I don't have much experience with Shamans. They have some abilities that could be useful as an arm, and a decent number of buff spells, but I just can't speak with any particular clarity on whether or not they can do the job you want them to.
Since youre an admitted "noob" i've got to say that those two classes are not a good choice for you.
I have seasoned veterans who even today have a hard time properly managing a regular Cleric or Wizard spell list, by comparison Arcanists, who mix spontaneous and prepared casting as well as a huge amount of unique bi-level abilities and Shamans, who are the single class with the very largest amount of base rules to play by, are among the most complex and difficult classes to choose from.
If you're determined to be a spellcaster, I strongly recommend one from the core rulebook, the core caster classes are to this day still touted as the strongest classes in the game despite the lack of fancy selectable special rules that clutter the more recent classes.
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Basic tips:
If you're gonna play a spellcaster you need to consider not only your spell selection but also what youre gonna do with yourself in battle.
The archtypical full-caster stands back from dangers and lets his spells do the work, but this is by no means a law.
1) The group you mentioned seems to lack a melee guy, so if youre gonna make a spellcaster your first order of business is to make sure that you don't regret the lack of a living, breathing, walkin-talkin player character meat shield, this is for yourself as much as it is for the team. This means that you will need some Summon spells. Specialization is not needed, but always have a few Summon monster/natures ally spells known and prepared. Drop them down at the start of a fight where an enemy has a direct path to your party.
2) You're a spellcaster, and there is no one who is guaranteed to be standing in front of you at the start of combat, this means that if some baddie starts his turn before you and runs into melee with you, youre screwed. To reduce the chances of this happening you absolutely need a good initiative. There's a trait that grants +2 initiative, get it! Even if you need to spend a feat on "Additional traits". Then there is "Improved initiative", get that too! Level 1 if you can manage. With the trait and feat you should be well off, but if you have nothing else to do with your ability scores then use them on dex.
3) Do you heal? If you go for a divine caster then make sure you get a couple of healing spells every day, even just 1 or 2 can help greatly. The best way to heal HP during an adventure is to A) Do it with Cure light wounds wands, that way you don't need to prepare too many healing spells or B) With channel energy, which is basically a mechanic conceived to let clerics heal without burning all of their spells. But sometimes you just need to heal somebody quick and good, someone who just went down middle of a bossfight, or someone being squished in a trap, for those circumstances you will not regret having one of your best spell slots prepared as a healing spell.
4) Do you fight? This depends heavily on your ability scores, with a high strength score anyone can be a melee threat, even if its just a buffed Wizard whacking down goblins with his staff. If you intend to routinely take to melee you should figure out a fighting style and stick to it, casters don't get a lot of feats so just one fighting style is all you will ever need until the higher levels, which is when you will start picking up metamagic and caster feats instead.
A Cleric/Druid/Shaman commonly fights with reach weapons or with a shield, they prefer to be better protected and further away from the hottest fighting so that they can call upon their spells when needed.
For the shield style you can go with Heavy armor proficiency so you can don full-plate, then the shield focus line for bonus AC. Power attack to boost your damage a little and you're good, that's only 4 feats. You can add dodge, to push up your ac a little more, and Furious focus to mitigate the power attack penalty.
For reach fighting you will again want power attack, Combat reflexes, Pushing assault, to push foes out of 5ft step reach from you, this negates their ability to full attack you as well as makes them proc more attacks of opportunity to reach you again. Finally lunge will help you expand your fighting radius. That again is 4 feats, you can ad Furious focus for a reduced attack penalty, or Second chance to ensure your slightly lower bab attacks hit more often.
5) Do you control? A fact between martial's and casters is that a damage focused martial runs circles around the damage of a damage focused caster, Im not saying you shouldn't pick damage spells, definitely do because damage spells are good and often a necessity. But really, often a caster is better off preventing the enemy from attacking your buddies. This makes spells that disable, delay or shut down enemies a more valuable use of your time then trying to deal damage. Think of it this way: As an 8th level character vs a boss npc, lets say a 10th level Witch, you might need to pick between throwing Empowered Scorching rays on her ((8d6)x1.5 damage, 42 average) or Phantasmal killer (Save dc 20), a Witch at that level has a will save of roughly +7-10, and likely her fort is rubbish, her HP stat ought to be around 60. Doing the math you will see that the Witch has a roughly 50% chance to die outright from phantasmal killer, but a very low chance to die from Empowered scorching ray, giving her another round for sure to pulverize you.
In your unique team, I would say it is especially important to have some damage spells, it is difficult for minion to kill certain kinds of enemies, notably flying ones and the especially hard to hit one's.