| bob bob 85 |
Hi, I'm starting to play more and more DnD and as a GM, I wanted to introduce monsters that are too strong for the PCs in an adventure.
My question is : Is there a way for PCs to know how strong an enemy really is before engaging in combat? (something similar to detect evil or magic, but with power level)
I think its weird to for the PCs to advance through the adventure and only face monsters which they have the power to beat. I would like them to have to hide or run from said powerful monster.
However, if I put a monster far too strong for the PCs with the intent for them to flee, I don't want them to rush in and die.
Any anwser, advice, or suggestion are welcome!
Eltacolibre
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It's actually recommended in the model of adventures to make challenges that the players can't overcome with brute strength alone.
It's easier to show instead of talking about it.
While every adventurers worth their common sense can recognize some high level threats like if the tarrasque shows up somewhere, you don't need to roll a knowledge check to know that the big monster just destroyed an entire city or every adventurers know that older and bigger dragons are very powerful.
Where it becomes different is with the rare monsters, the ones people never hear about it or live to tell the tales about. For this one like I said before, don't bother with long explanation of what the monster is...just show it. Don't go into the history of the creature or the like, it's boring and nobody cares.
If your monster can blow up a castle with laser beams from his eyes, show it. If your grim reaper can siphon souls with just a touch (usually on a monster of their party APL/CR range) show it!
| Guardianlord |
Knowledge checks can allow the characters to know a monsters particulars, the real trick is the PLAYERS knowing what they can and can not handle, descriptions are helpful here.
NPC's traveling beside the PC's with familiarity with the monster that are willing to give detailed (and frightening) advice can also help.
Let the monster be seen at a distance finishing off a multiple of something that the party found tough to fight (etc: if the last boss was an ogre, have it killing several ogres with ease). Show how powerful the monster actually is before the party engages it.
Or make the monsters intelligent, and place them in strategically advantageous positions (like giants in a fortress), then if the PC's still insist on fighting, hit them hard from range (then give the party a good head start).
| Cyrad RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
Present the monster in a way that makes them seem very threatening and risky to engage. Make it obvious the party has options to avoid the creature, which may hint to the players that you intend for them to run rather than engage it. One way I do this is by making the monster Large or Huge, which makes it obviously dangerous to engage in melee with. Disgusting monsters or powerful undead are also good because powerful undead creatures usually have devastating melee attacks that inflict status conditions.
The nice thing about Pathfinder (unlike 4th Edition) is that the appearance of monsters in the bestiary can indicate how strong and dangerous it is. If the creature is a humanoid with class levels, then point out the fact they look really brawny and are decked out with high quality gear.
Eltacolibre
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A monster to never use in these kind of example...well unless you want to be sadistic: Winterwight.
Winterwight looks like regular wight...I mean seriously there is no difference in appearance at all. Except winterwight are CR 17 horrifying monsters. A winterwight in the middle of group of wights would certainly catch many unprepared adventurers by surprise.
| Rabbiteconomist |
One way for PC's to realize something is tough in game is by comparison. If they see a known quantity,say a tough NPC or monster they have encountered and are familiar with, and the party sees known tough thing get crushed by your monster. Watching spells fail repeatedly against a monster is also demoralizing.
If they don't see the monster in action, let them see the path of destruction with enough detail that they can put 2 and 2 together. Ex - PC's find destroyed trees, giant footprints, effortlessly defeated Ogres/Giants littering it's path.
All else fails, NPC's directly tell PC's to not mess with that kind of monster.
| thejeff |
Officially, there isn't. Other than demonstrating and making it obvious the monster would be completely overwhelming, as others have suggested. After the first few levels, size isn't a particularly good indicator.
I've taken to adding CR information, usually phrased in in-world terms, to knowledge checks. "You recognize that as a troll. One of them would be a challenging fight for your group. You can see at least 5 of them."
| Ravingdork |
A monster to never use in these kind of example...well unless you want to be sadistic: Winterwight.
Winterwight looks like regular wight...I mean seriously there is no difference in appearance at all. Except winterwight are CR 17 horrifying monsters. A winterwight in the middle of group of wights would certainly catch many unprepared adventurers by surprise.
Er, they don't really sound very similar at all...
Wight
The flesh of this walking corpse is rotting and putrid, its body skeletal in places and its eye sockets glowing with red light.
From the description:
...a wight arises when an evil undead spirit permanently bonds with a corpse, often the corpse of a slain warrior. They are barely recognizable to those who knew them in life; their flesh is twisted by evil and undeath, the eyes burn with hatred, and the teeth become beast-like. In some ways, a wight bridges the gap between a ghoul and a spectre—a warped animated corpse whose touch steals living energy.
Winterwight
Human-sized and of a deathly blue color, this long-taloned skeletal creature is partially encased in jagged sheets of ice.
From the description:
...the winterwight takes the form of a skeleton coated in armor of jagged ice. ... Though it resembles an ordinary skeleton from a distance, the winterwight's frame is much sturdier than the average humanoid's, its frozen armor intertwining with its bone structure to form an incredibly hardy chassis.