Masterwork Artisan's Tools?

[Nicolbolas Cage]

A) Are these legal in PFS, and
B) Will they improve my day job check?

[BigNorseWolf]

For craft? Yes and yes. (Some skills they get a little iffy on but this shouldn't be one of them)

[Nefreet]

Nicolbolas Cage wrote:

Are these legal in PFS

For this and other questions of legality, the Additional Resources document is your friend. As BNW already stated, Masterwork Artisans tools are legal for purchase in PFS. You don't even need to meet any Fame requirements.

Nicolbolas Cage wrote:

Will they improve my day job check?

For the answer to this question you can also consult the Guide to Organized Play. Any permanent bonuses from items, feats, class abilities, etc. may be applied to Day Job checks. Masterwork tools would be included in that list.

[FLite]

I am just noticing this.

Why would you ever buy an alchemist lab (200 gp, 40 lbs) when you could just buy masterwork artisan tools (craft alchemy) for 55gp and 5 lbs...

[ryukadsgc]

You can actually use both of them to stack since the circumstance bonuses come from different sources, and one can just put the alchemist lab in a handy haversack.

[BigNorseWolf]

ryukadsgc wrote:

You can actually use both of them to stack since the circumstance bonuses come from different sources, and one can just put the alchemist lab in a handy haversack.

This one specifically does not work

Flite wrote:

I am just noticing this.

Why would you ever buy an alchemist lab (200 gp, 40 lbs) when you could just buy masterwork artisan tools (craft alchemy) for 55gp and 5 lbs...

Ultimate equipment wrote:

Several common items already count as masterwork

tools for particular skills. These are the alchemist’s lab,
climber’s kit, disguise kit, healer’s kit, masterwork musical
instrument, and masterwork thieves’ tools. Therefore, there
is no masterwork climber’s kit, masterwork healer’s kit, and
so on—those items are already the best available for general
checks with the relevant skill.

[Nefreet]

^ bingo.

[ryukadsgc]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Ultimate equipment wrote:

Several common items already count as masterwork

tools for particular skills. These are the alchemist’s lab,
climber’s kit, disguise kit, healer’s kit, masterwork musical
instrument, and masterwork thieves’ tools. Therefore, there
is no masterwork climber’s kit, masterwork healer’s kit, and
so on—those items are already the best available for general
checks with the relevant skill.

It actually does work since Masterwork Artisan tools are a distinct item type from the Masterwork tools

Ultimate equipment wrote:

Artisan's Tools

Type Price Weight
Common 5 gp 5 lbs.
Masterwork 55 gp 5 lbs.

These special tools include the items needed to pursue any single craft. Without them, you have to use improvised tools (–2 penalty on Craft checks), if you can do the job at all.

Masterwork Artisan's Tools: These tools serve the same purpose as artisan's tools, but masterwork artisan's tools are the perfect tools for the job, so you get a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft checks made with them.

[BigNorseWolf]

No.

This could not be any easier. Your specific example was specifically and deliberately called out as something that does not work.

The alchemist lab is the masterwork alchemists kit. It costs extra. It weighs extra. It does not stack with a 50 gp masterwork alchemists because there IS no 50 gp alchemists masterwork tool because the masterwork kit for that skill IS the 200 gp one.

There is no masterwork alchemist kit. The Alchemist lab is already the best available for general checks with the relevant skill. Its black and white, clear as crystal.

[LazarX]

FLite wrote:

I am just noticing this.

Why would you ever buy an alchemist lab (200 gp, 40 lbs) when you could just buy masterwork artisan tools (craft alchemy) for 55gp and 5 lbs...

If masterwork tools or the equivalent are already defined for a profession, you have to use the specific sets of tools, not the 55gp generic price.

[nosig]

ryukadsgc wrote:

You can actually use both of them to stack since the circumstance bonuses come from different sources, and one can just put the alchemist lab in a handy haversack.

all circumstance bonuses SHOULD be under the control of the judge.

if you have any circumstance bonus - such as from a MW tool - you need to ask the judge if it applies.

For example:
Judge: "Perception check?"
Player: "Take 10 for a 25, 27 with my tool!"

this allows him to ask:
Judge: "what's your tool?"
Player discribes a tool to boost his PCs vision... and as the check is to detect a SMELL, the judge does not add it in, and checks the 25 Perception check to see if the PC detected it.

SO, yes, Circumstance bonuses stack - but only the judge can tell if the circumstances apply to this check.

here's an older thread where we discussed this very problem

Alchemist Lab vs Masterwork