Help with calculating acid damage to items

[Teatime42]

So, last session we ran into a cr 25 Brown/desert worm pretending to be an oasis.

It engulfed/swallowed the bard, and three other players who were not at game that day. They were grappled/pinned inside the worm, so no saving throws were allowed for them or their items for the crushing damage, or the acid damage, and they and their items took about 45 and 25 acid damage, destroying all non adamantine gear. This damage was not halved, we didn't know about that rule, and it's unknown if it will be applied retroactively.

One player had only adamantine gear (including an adamantine bag of holding, no idea wth there XD), the next had their armor and weapon survive for the same reason, the last two lost everything except for 1 weapon.

We did manage to defeat it (really good damage rolls, and a powerful npc ally), but the gm downgraded it to a cr 20 since it didn't use its most powerful abilities, from it's conservative (lazy) nature, and the fact that we likely killed it too fast for it to decide otherwise. XD

So, is there any way to protect yourself from gear destruction like this? Would acid resistance have applied to the gear as well? And how much hardness and hp difference would magical/wonderous items (non arms and armor) have versus their mundane counterparts?

(Typed on my tablet, likely tons of auto correct issues)

[TGMaxMaxer]

Acid damage is halved against objects (as is any energy damage) then you apply hardness. Magic adds 2 hardness per +1, and 10 hp.

So, 12 acid before hardness.

Adamantine, Living Steel, and Mithral would ignore the acid completely, no magic needed. Alchemical Silver with +2 would ignore the acid. Cold Iron with a +1 would ignore the acid. Darkwood with +4 would ignore the acid.

Was that 45 crushing damage and 25 acid damage in a single round? If it was total, you apply hardness separately for each "attack".

[Teatime42]

It was two separate rounds of acid damage, about 45 in the first round, about 25 in the second for 79 total damage. My exact numbers are off a bit for the per round (It would have to be something like 49 and 30, but I recall the gm saying 4X and 2X, for 79 total. I missed the ones slot, not the tens, so, no idea wth) but the 79 total was accurate. The crushing wasn't dealt to the items afaik.

What about magic items that don't have an enhancement bonus? Are they any different in hardness/hp than a normal version would be? (Bag of holding = same stats as a backpack?)

What if the PC had either a spell or item that gave acid resistance, would their gear benefit as well? Or just them?

Are there any ways to protect your gear as a whole from something like this?

Is this in the wrong forums? XD

Thank you for the response.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Well, you could point out the rule in Swallow Whole.

Swallow Whole wrote:

Being swallowed causes a creature to take damage each round.

It doesn't actually damage gear unless it has a special exception.

This is an extension of:

Damaging Objects wrote:

Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects).

Short answer, unless something is specifically targeting your gear or has an exception to the general rule (e.g. Each time a creature suffers damage from a black pudding's acid, its clothing and armor take the same amount of damage from the acid.) your gear is assumed to be safe.

Now, if you just want super invincible gear there's Hardening, Impervious (weapon), Impervious (armor), and Fortifying Stones.

[Teatime42]

I asked the gm if the creatures swallow whole specified items, he said that it didn't matter, it was stomach acid, it affects everything.

I pointed out that if it didn't specify, it needed to be off a 1 on a save, and no one got a save after being swallowed, he said that both rules were "stupid logic" and he was throwing them out.

I then mentioned that, aside from gm discretion (fire vs paper, sonic versus glass), items/inanimate objects took half damage from energy attacks. He said no one took energy damage, they took acid damage. I said that acid damage WAS energy damage, he said that energy damage was like electricity/lightning. I responded that fire, acid, cold, electricity and whatever the fifth was, are all considered energy damage and types. He said that no, it was elemental damage.

I paused, and said that maybe that's how previous editions classified things, but pathfinder says they're energy types, and that inanimate things/items took half unless it was something that was abnormally susceptible to it.

He responded that everything is susceptible to acid, Pathfinder doesn't have energy types, it has elemental types, I was wrong, and that everyone's gear that had been affected, was destroyed, with some exceptions when it came to adamantine gear.

I stopped at that point, recognizing that it was another case of, "the rules are stupid", and I couldn't do a thing.

Now, I need help. Does acid resistance on ME protect my gear/items too? If I get into this situation like they did, I want protection. :(

[Bob Bob Bob]

Short answer? Whatever your GM says, because they're not playing by the standard rules anymore. I can't give you advice on rules and how they interact when the GM has thrown out a bunch of rules (and probably would throw out more if you found anything else that contradicts their viewpoint). You're at their whims, any advice I give you would be completely useless.

Everything you stated is correct. Swallow Whole needs to specify before it does damage to gear. Objects do take half damage from energy attacks, and the energy types are fire, cold, acid, electricity, and sonic. There's some wiggle room on whether force, negative energy, and positive energy are energy types, but acid definitely is one.

The part you forgot (not sure if it was applied correctly) is that in addition to the half damage objects also get to reduce the damage taken by their hardness. This isn't that high for most gear (2 for leather, 0 for cloth) but weapons and armor start at 5 (for wooden hafted weapons) and most are 10 (for iron/steel). Mithral is 15. Additionally, they get +1 hardness and +10 HP for every +1 enhancement bonus (actual bonus, not equivalent).

I was originally going to suggest taking this new power and running with it by getting Acid Pit for someone in your party and wrecking everything you fight's gear, but after looking at it I realized it has a specific exception and rules for damaging gear. So it did that regardless of your GM's houserules. So instead I guess we'll go with Acid Fog (though it also says it hurts objects inside, no idea if that includes gear), Acidic Spray, Acid Arrow, and finally, depending on how hardness is played, Acid Splash. At will 1d3 acid damage (and the GM ignoring hardness) means you can destroy everything given enough time. Locks, hinges, bridge supports, bridges, castles, whatever. Otherwise you'll have to go with Acid Arrow and destroy spellcasters (spell component pouches are cloth/leather and holy symbols are generally wood). Also everyone you hit with the spells should probably end up naked (cloth is hardness 0).

Fair warning, I don't actually recommend doing that unless you're planning on leaving the group. Following the inevitable consequences of your GM's houserules tends not to enamor them to you. It mostly just angers them. Of course, as a player it angers me when the rules change on me mid-game with no warning, and I'm not above destructive compliance. If you want a slightly less disruptive method of complaining you could just point out the possible consequences of the new houserules and ask if they're sure that's what they want.

Cynicism:

I should point out that I'm almost positive this is going to end with the GM ruling that stomach acid (or "natural" acid) is special somehow and AoE magic doesn't get to destroy gear and spells that target creatures don't affect gear and magic acid doesn't ignore the half damage rule on gear and depending on whether they were doing hardness right in the first place, acid splash shouldn't be allowed as a cantrip because it's too powerful/cantrips being at-will is too powerful. It's what they like to call "realism" and I always append "by people who vaguely remember middle school physics/chemistry/biology" and "in a world divided into discrete 5 foot increments where a larger spear doesn't actually reach farther/other rules oddities".

[Teatime42]

I did edit parts of the convo a bit, mostly for length. Yeah, I did mention hardness, but aside from Weapons and Armor, they generally have very little, 79 damage is far in excess of what they can take. Oddly enough, if I had been a target, I could have taken it a bit better than they did.

I, in a bit of a tiff (This sort of thing angers me a bit), did tell a another player that has a LOT of uses of fireball about a potential new toy for him.

We plan to keep it in mind, but, generally neither of us are the type to take advantage of... well, in all honesty I can't qualify it as much more than stubbornness, or foolishness.

I agree with the Cynicism, I expect it all to work roughly that way.

God save us players from GMs with far less knowledge and experience than they think they have. :/

And of course, GMs from the same in the opposite direction.

Hardly a one way street.

Hell, this GM refused to let us talk to an imprisoned (Their true speech was suppressed) Solar Angel, because they could only Speak Elysium (Their native tongue), being from Elysium, and not the Celestial Planes, when half of our party could speak Celestial. XD

I did eventually convince him that that is not a default language, unless he was making it one (Which was fine with me, non-core campaigns are welcome too new languages (WOOO, FLAVOR!), but he had been convinced it was already one).

As for the Acid Resistance. I figure it's an aura effect, and would affect anything held/bonded to the Player.

Of course, he already threw out PART of that rule, so, who knows.

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Thanks for the responses everyone, I think this may be at it's limit for help and advice. :)