touch attack clarification ?


Rules Questions


I assumed I was starting to understand a lot, but then the situation of the ring of protection came up in which I was told it only defends against magic, which I knew was wrong, so I went to go look it up, so this question is technically 2 questions,

1. being, what exactly does a ring of protection do, I know the +x as a deflection bonus, and then I read deflection bonus, but I cant tell if where it says applies to touch attacks is also, on top of normal attacks, or if you only get that +x on defending against touch attacks?

2. being that I realized I knew nothing about touch attacks, I thought it was a term for just certain abilities and spells, I knew it ignored armor, but I thought it had to be a spell or ability making the attack, then I stumbled onto reading stuff that sounded like you can legit just say "hey im making a touch attack" and it count, so im very confused, what exactly are touch attacks, what makes them happen, how do they work?

as always, thanks


1. Deflection bonuses to AC applies to any attack vs AC.

2. Touch attacks ignore the armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses to AC.


Here are the relevant quotes and page numbers.

big quote:
CRB p179 Armor Class wrote:

Your Armor Class (AC) represents how hard it is for opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you. It’s the attack roll result that an opponent needs to achieve to hit you. Your AC is equal to the following:

10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier + other modifiers
Note that armor limits your Dexterity bonus, so if you’re wearing armor, you might not be able to apply your whole Dexterity bonus to your AC (see Table 6–6).

Sometimes you can’t use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one). If you can’t react to a blow, you can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC. If you don’t have a Dexterity bonus, your AC does not change.

Other Modifiers: Many other factors modify your AC. Enhancement Bonuses: Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.

Deflection Bonus: Magical deflection effects ward off attacks and improve your AC.

Natural Armor: If your race has a tough hide, scales, or thick skin you receive a bonus to your AC.

Dodge Bonuses: Dodge bonuses represent actively avoiding blows. Any situation that denies you your Dexterity bonus also denies you dodge bonuses. (Wearing armor, however, does not limit these bonuses the way it limits a Dexterity bonus to AC.) Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.

Size Modifier: You receive a bonus or penalty to your AC based on your size. See Table 8–1.

CRB p179 Touch Attacks wrote:
Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn’t include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

To clarify things, touch attacks do no damage from the attack per se, only the damage or the effect of the spell being delivered via the touch attack.

A few rare attack forms are resolved as touch attacks, such as firearms, depending on the range increment and the specific type of firearm and relevant feats, and such types of variables. In this case they do their damage as normal.

To find your touch AC, take your full AC and deduct your armor, shield and natural armor bonuses, if any. Keep everything else.

AFAIK, the only armor bonuses that also apply to touch attacks are "force effects" like mage armor and shield spells.

So a given PC can't just suddenly say "I'm making a touch attack" with his sword or hand, and expect it to have any effect at all. Unless he has ranks in perform (tickling). <g>

Liberty's Edge

alkatrazshock wrote:


2. being that I realized I knew nothing about touch attacks, I thought it was a term for just certain abilities and spells, I knew it ignored armor, but I thought it had to be a spell or ability making the attack, then I stumbled onto reading stuff that sounded like you can legit just say "hey im making a touch attack" and it count, so im very confused, what exactly are touch attacks, what makes them happen, how do they work?

wraithstrike and Gauss have already replied to the other question.

This one is more tricky.

Who can make touch attacks?

- spellcasters using spells;
- spellcasters using held spells;
- spell like abilities of several classes;
- supernatural abilities of several classes.

There is a ongoing thread about those, it seem that the majority of the GM feel that it is not possible to make more that 1 touch attack a round with those abilities when using them to make touch attacks (I think you can use iterative attacks).

There is a issue about charging a single limb or multiple limbs with the touch attack too.

- monsters that can make attacks with touch attacks. Generally they are treated as natural weapons, so they can be hasted but don't get iterative attacks.

- a good number of class or feat related abilities that are resolved using a touch attack.
Those are the most varied, come can benefit from a high BAB and/or haste other allow a single attack each round.

It is fairly confusing.

Liberty's Edge

Wheldrake wrote:

AFAIK, the only armor bonuses that also apply to touch attacks are "force effects" like mage armor and shield spells.

Those apply against incorporeal touch attack, but not against regular touch attack.

Mage armor give a armor bonus to AC, the Shield spell a shield bonus, both don't change your touch AC.


Wheldrake wrote:

To clarify things, touch attacks do no damage from the attack per se, only the damage or the effect of the spell being delivered via the touch attack.

A few rare attack forms are resolved as touch attacks, such as firearms, depending on the range increment and the specific type of firearm and relevant feats, and such types of variables. In this case they do their damage as normal.

To find your touch AC, take your full AC and deduct your armor, shield and natural armor bonuses, if any. Keep everything else.

AFAIK, the only armor bonuses that also apply to touch attacks are "force effects" like mage armor and shield spells.

So a given PC can't just suddenly say "I'm making a touch attack" with his sword or hand, and expect it to have any effect at all. Unless he has ranks in perform (tickling). <g>

They only apply to touch attacks vs incorporeal creatures such as shadows. Otherwise they follow the normal rules for armor and shield bonuses.

Liberty's Edge

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I have ninjaed you by 46 seconds, wraithstrike .
;-)


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So you mean ranged touch attacks like rays don't have to take mage armor or shield into account?

Shuddersome!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Correct. There really needs to be a more clearly defined 4th AC (on top of normal, flat-footed, and touch) for incorporeal attacks, because this is a point of confusion more often than you might think.

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