Equipping NPC's and CR

[HNNNNNNG]

Hi!

I was wondering if/where it says that increasing the stats of an NPC (say giving it a stat array that's better then Heroic) and giving it a lot more wealth then what it would normally has, increases the CR of the npc.

NPC with stats as good or better increases the CR
NPC with equipment that's over what NPC wealth chart says increases CR

*said npc's would be baddies players fight against

I'm pretty sure it does, I'm just wondering where in the book it says it does (assuming that it does).

Or is it just a GM thing?

Thanks in advance!

[Eltacolibre]

yeah it is mentioned in the gamemastery guide.

If you want to give npc wealth of the pc, it's cr+1.

If you increase the npc stats, it would technically increase the cr but if your pc are running around with 30+ point buy equivalent, whatever, don't bother increasing the cr for higher stats.

[Lifat]

The CR system are mere guidelines in the first place, and whenever you give an NPC something that it doesn't have by standard you are increasing the difficulty of said NPC. It is up to you to judge if what you give the NPC is enough to bump it 1 CR (or more). Personally speaking I tend to give my important NPC's the same statpoints as the PC's. I generally stay away from increasing wealth of my NPC's above giving them PC WBL and in some cases I let that bump the CR with +1 other times I grant a little more experience ad hoc and other times I grant nothing at all (besides the increased treasure).

[Weirdo]

Keep in mind that giving an NPC PC-wealth means the PCs get a huge windfall when they defeat him, so don't do it too often.

[Lifat]

Weirdo wrote:

Keep in mind that giving an NPC PC-wealth means the PCs get a huge windfall when they defeat him, so don't do it too often.

You should always be mindfull of the groups WBL. If it is too high it is important not to give them a further increase beyond what they should be getting.

There are several ways to make an NPC with PC wealth without boosting the groups WBL beyond what it is supposed to be.

Firstly, you could make a lot of encounters prior to the NPC that grants no treasure (in effect starving the group before the windfall).

Secondly, giving the NPC wealth in the form of single use items that have already been used (as a buff) when the group meets the NPC is a way to do it. Or give the NPC single use items that he is going to use during combat. The danger of this approach is that the group might unexpectedly bring down the NPC before he has a chance to use all those nice single use items and in that case they will increase their WBL significantly.

Thirdly, a group needs to gain a certain amount of treasure before they level up to stay with their WBL. That is why increasing an encounters XP value will mean that the group needs more treasure from the encounter to stay WBL comparative. So if you increase the treasure on an NPC and then increase the XP value, then it will even out the WBL increase at least a little. It isn't a recommended solution to simply increase the XP value to match the percentage of treasure gained because it will make for a very easy encounter (when compared to the XP value).

Personally speaking I stay away from increasing the wealth of NPCs unless they are very special. Think adventure path bosses special. I might do it as a way to increase the groups wealth if they are behind on treasure though.

[Rambear]

Weirdo wrote:

Keep in mind that giving an NPC PC-wealth means the PCs get a huge windfall when they defeat him, so don't do it too often.

I have used permanency (Magic Fang) and stat-books on NPCs at higher level. It increases effectiveness of the NPC, while being unobtainable by the PCs.

Besides that, considering the fact that NPCs are usually higher level I absolutely do not give the NPC wealth for his level, usually PC level or PC-1 or 2.

Still enough to provide a challenge and making it a nice treasure, but not breaking the game. Balancing with Non-Treasure monsters, entering a time-constraint to looting or a Rust Monster will do the rest :).

[Weirdo]

Lifat wrote:

Personally speaking I stay away from increasing the wealth of NPCs unless they are very special. Think adventure path bosses special. I might do it as a way to increase the groups wealth if they are behind on treasure though.

Good policy.

@Rambear - Permanency is also a good way to go, though I don't see the point of giving them extra wealth to increase CR and spending it on stat books, rather than giving them higher stats to increase CR.

[Spook205]

Just, for the love of all that's holy, make the NPC's gear interesting.

I've been using the NPC codex for stuff from time to time and the party paladin has started literally handing out cloaks of resistance+1 to people in need because they have so many of them.

[Cevah]

For stat adjustments, check out the Advanced and Young templates. They apply a +/-1 to CR.

/cevah

[Weirdo]

Spook205 wrote:

Just, for the love of all that's holy, make the NPC's gear interesting.

I've been using the NPC codex for stuff from time to time and the party paladin has started literally handing out cloaks of resistance+1 to people in need because they have so many of them.

I wonder if part of this is due to humanoids' reliance on Big Six items? It's more efficient to equip NPCs with those items in terms of level of challenge they pose with a given amount of gear, and since the NPC Codex characters are made with NPC level wealth they've got less to work with from the start...

And of course many unique items that would be useful to an NPC won't be useful to PCs because they rely on specific tactics or class features (like a Furious Weapon or Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver).