Who can attempt to Recharge Spell cards vs Who mush Banish Spell cards?

[nondeskript]

Ok so this has been bugging me since the Class Deck character sheets came out. I want to see if I understand correctly who can attempt to Recharge which types of spells when played vs who must Banish any spell they play. Some are really obvious, but a few are more complicated. Is this correct:

Can Recharge Arcane only
------------------------
Ezren [RotR]
Seoni [RotR]
Seltyiel [S&S]
Feiya [S&S]
Amaryllis [CD]
Qualzar [CD]
Seoni [CD]
Valendron [CD]
Darago [CD]
Ezren [CD]
Melindra [CD]
Radillo [CD]

Can Recharge Divine only
------------------------
Harsk [RotR]*1
Kyra [RotR]
Lini [RotR]
Seelah [RotR]
Alahazra [S&S]*2
Lini [S&S]
Oloch [S&S]
Heggal [CD]
Kyra [CD]
Tarlin [CD]
Zarlova [CD]*4
Arabundi [CD]
Harsk [CD]*1
Lesath [CD]*1

Can Recharge Arcane & Divine spells
-----------------------------------
Lem [RotR]
Alahazra [S&S]*2
Lem [S&S]
Bekah [CD]
Lem [CD]
Meliski [CD]
Siwar [CD]
Zarlova [CD]*4

Must Banish all spells
----------------------
Amiri [RotR]
Harsk [RotR]*1
Merisiel [RotR]
Sajan [RotR]
Valeros [RotR]
Damiel [S&S]*3
Jirelle [S&S]
Lirianne [S&S]
Merisiel [S&S]
Ranzak [S&S]
Valeros [S&S]
Flenta [CD]*5
Tontelizi [CD]
Valeros [CD]
Vika [CD]
Agna [CD]
Harsk [CD]*1
Wrathack [CD]
Lesath [CD]*1
Merisiel [CD]
Olenjack [CD]
Wu Shen [CD]

*1 Harsk [RotR], Harsk [CD] & Lesth [CD] can take a power that allows them to Recharge Divine spells.

Harsk RotR & CD Role Cards wrote:

[] You gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +1.

Lesath Dervish Role Card wrote:

[] You gain the skill Survival([] and Divine): Wisdom +2.

Lesath Sword Dancer Role Card wrote:

[] You gain the skill Perception ([] and Divine): Wisdom +2.

*2 Alahazra [S&S] can take a power that allows her to sometimes recharge Arcane spells if she takes the Tempest role.

Alahazra S&S Tempest Role Card wrote:

[] When you play a spell that has the Attack trait, you gain the skill Arcane: Charisma +2 until the end of the encounter.

*3 Damiel has the following powers:

Damiel S&S Character card wrote:

When you would banish a card that has the Alchemical trait, recharge it instead.

When you play a spell that does not have the Attack trait, you gain the skills Arcane and Divine equal to your Craft skill until the end of the step.

So if there is ever a Spell card with the Alchemical trait, he would not have to banish it, but that seems unlikely.

Additionally, the second power sounds like it would give him the ability to attempt to Recharge non-Attack spells, but I don't think it does. He only has the power until the end of the step and Recharging is a seperate step. Once he reaches that step he no longer has the Arcane or Divine skill and must banish the card. But my interpretation of this could be incorrect.

*4 Zarlova [CD] can take a power that allows her to recharge Arcane spells if she takes the Theurge role.

Zarlova CD Theurge Role Card wrote:

[] You gain the skill Arcane: Intelligence +2

*5 Flenta has the following power:

Flenta CD Character card wrote:

[] For your combat check that has the Attack trait, you may use the skill Arcane: Intelligence +2

The power sounds like it could give her a recharge, but I don't think it would for basically the same reasons Damiel's doesn't. Additionally it doesn't actually give her the skill, it just lets her use the skill, so it doesn't meet the requirements for not Banishing.

One thing I noticed while writing this, Alahazra's power doesn't work on Arcane+Attack specifically, but any Arcane if you play an Attack spell. So if you used a Divine Attack spell, you would then not have to banish any Arcane spell you legally play before the end of the encounter, even though it doesn't have Attack (such as Arcane Armor).

Also I am REALLY unsure about Damiel... Having the skill "until the end of the step" vs needing to have the skill "After playing the card"... Where does the step end vs playing the card ends? And if his power doesn't let him avoid banishing and attempt a recharge (with a d4 because by the time he got the the recharge he definitely wouldn't have the Arcane or Divine skill anymore), what is the point? How many non-Attack Spell cards use your Arcane/Divine skill? I couldn't find any in the base set or Deck 1.

[csouth154]

Each spell tells you the skills you must have in order for it not to be banished after it is played. If you don't have one of the skills mentioned, banish the spell after playing it. If you have a skill that allows you not to banish a spell, then you will be able to attempt to recharge it with one of the choices given for the recharge check.

[nondeskript]

csouth154 wrote:

Each spell tells you the skills you must have in order for it not to be banished after it is played. If you don't have one of the skills mentioned, banish the spell after playing it. If you have a skill that allows you not to banish a spell, then you will be able to attempt to recharge it with one of the choices given for the recharge check.

I get that, and I really wrote this more so that I could think through the edge cases (Alahazra, Flenta & Damiel) and look to see if there were any others. So the question is: Do these characters have their temporary skills "after it is played"? Alahazra, yes. Flenta, no. Damiel? I don't really know.

[csouth154]

nondeskript wrote:

csouth154 wrote:

Each spell tells you the skills you must have in order for it not to be banished after it is played. If you don't have one of the skills mentioned, banish the spell after playing it. If you have a skill that allows you not to banish a spell, then you will be able to attempt to recharge it with one of the choices given for the recharge check.

I get that, and I really wrote this more so that I could think through the edge cases (Alahazra, Flenta & Damiel) and look to see if there were any others. So the question is: Do these characters have their temporary skills "after it is played"? Alahazra, yes. Flenta, no. Damiel? I don't really know.

Well, looking at the turn sequence, it would appear that recharge checks are NOT a part of the same step on which the spell would have been played, so Damiel's power allows him not to banish a non-attack spell, but it doesn't allow him to attempt to recharge them.

I tend to think this was not the intent, so I'm interested to see if this results in errata.

[csouth154]

csouth154 wrote:

nondeskript wrote:

csouth154 wrote:

Each spell tells you the skills you must have in order for it not to be banished after it is played. If you don't have one of the skills mentioned, banish the spell after playing it. If you have a skill that allows you not to banish a spell, then you will be able to attempt to recharge it with one of the choices given for the recharge check.

I get that, and I really wrote this more so that I could think through the edge cases (Alahazra, Flenta & Damiel) and look to see if there were any others. So the question is: Do these characters have their temporary skills "after it is played"? Alahazra, yes. Flenta, no. Damiel? I don't really know.

Well, looking at the turn sequence, it would appear that recharge checks are NOT a part of the same step on which the spell would have been played, so Damiel's power allows him not to banish a non-attack spell, but it doesn't allow him to attempt to recharge them.

I tend to think this was not the intent, so I'm interested to see if this results in errata.

After looking further, this gets more complicated. A spell cast during the "before" or "after you act" step, such as an Aid to affect a check that might be required, would appear to have its recharge check be part of that step. But the way they have worded the encounter sequence suggests that checks that come after "the check" (meaning the check to acquire or defeat), be they recharge checks or a second check to acquire or defeat, would come during the subsequent "attempt the next check" step....

This is getting fairly muddled, if you ask me. Perhaps they meant for an "attempt the next check, if needed" step to come after any step on which a check is required? That would make sense, and make it clear on which step all types of checks should happen.

[Johnny Chronicle]

nondeskript wrote:

csouth154 wrote:

Each spell tells you the skills you must have in order for it not to be banished after it is played. If you don't have one of the skills mentioned, banish the spell after playing it. If you have a skill that allows you not to banish a spell, then you will be able to attempt to recharge it with one of the choices given for the recharge check.

I get that, and I really wrote this more so that I could think through the edge cases (Alahazra, Flenta & Damiel) and look to see if there were any others. So the question is: Do these characters have their temporary skills "after it is played"? Alahazra, yes. Flenta, no. Damiel? I don't really know.

This is the question I've been hoping for an answer for over here. For some time… 8>)