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Playing a Tengu Swashbuckler
Not necessarily the best race choice but I was determined to play a Tengu and make use of sword trained (free Falcata yay). So I decided to give the swashbuckler a run see how it played out.
Here is my planed build:
Lvl 4
Stats (12+1|18|12|10|10|14)
36 health - 21 AC - 3 Panash (can I buy more than one feather to raise this further?)
Feats:
Lvl 1 - Swashbuckler Finesse, Weapon focus (Falcata)
Lvl 3 - Slashing Grace Falcata
Lvl 4 - Bonus Feat (combat): Power Attack
This leaves me with a attack of:
+7 to hit
1d8 + 12 crit on 18-20 for [(1d8+8)x3+4]
(lvl 5 this will be +9 to hit and crit on 16-20 for [(1d8+9)x3+5])
Notable skills: (11 acrobatics, 9 perception, 10 stealth)
Looking for thoughts on:
Is this a decent start for lvl 4/5
Suggestions for feat to take at lvl 5/7
Anything you would fix/change (other than don't play a tengu swashbuckler)
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One minor note is falcata is a 19-20 x3 crit range, so it expands to 17-20. You're going to be weak for your first few levels until you hit slashing grace (first level you should probably just run some beefy 18 str w/ a 2h guy). You don't even get dex to damage/attack until 3rd level, and a +2/3 to attack isn't going to cut it most likely.
You might want to take a look at the Cavalier archetype in the ACG. Very similar playstyle/mechanically, just stronger in most ways, especially after 4th level.
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Of note - you don't even really need need the strength of 12. It gets you almost nothing (CMD?) once you hit level 3.
The other option of course to use sword trained with the sawtoothed sabre & TWF with it. (having TWF be your level 4 feat) If you do - you might consider multiclassing into ninja for a few levels.
In any case - you're gonna kinda stink until level 3. You might want to try an entirely different build for level 1 and rebuild just before you play at level 2 - then you only have to stink for 3 sessions instead of 6 :P.
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You are obligated to use one of your own feathers in your hat.
You are obligated to use one of your own feathers in your hat.
There is truth in this statement.
To note: he doesn't have to use the falcata at levels 1 and 2, he can start out using a rapier and switch to falcata at level 3.
Not sure if that fits the flavor of the character, but it gives you +2 to hit and better Panache regeneration.
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To note: he doesn't have to use the falcata at levels 1 and 2, he can start out using a rapier and switch to falcata at level 3.
Not sure if that fits the flavor of the character, but it gives you +2 to hit and better Panache regeneration.
This is correct I am using a rapier till i hit 3 and i do have slightly adjusted stats for lvl 1.
The crit range at lvl 5 is indeed 17-20 I fat fingered that one. (the thought here of going with the 17-20 vs a 15-20 crit is that the x3 [extra 13 damage on average] will generate enough damage to get a killing blow more often and compensate for less overall crits).
I know this char will never be a min/max hero but I also want to make sure i'm not going to be too far off the mark.
Natural attacks count as light weapons, and bite attacks are B/S/P. So a bite can regain you panache (although you explicitly cannot get Precise Strike damage with it.)
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Swashbuckler Weapon Training (Ex)
At 5th level, a swashbuckler gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one-handed or light piercing melee weapons. While wielding such a weapon, she gains the benefit of the Improved Critical feat
Will this make my beak crit on 19-20?
Blood Beak worth the feat at lvl 5?
I'm guessing I can do way better then changing 1d3 to 1d6 + 1 bleed.
Really seems like even a player focusing on natural attacks would pass by this feat. Am I missing something or is this as underwhelming as it looks?
I am not sure whether you count as "wielding" a natural weapon, so Swashbuckler Weapon Training might not apply to the bite.
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Ya I got hung up on the same word you did. I'm not sure if the "While wielding such a weapon" disqualifies the beak or not.
Also still looking for thought on what to do with the rest of my feats.
When I hit lvl 5 it's looking like i will have a fairly capable damage dealer so what should I aim for from there.
The feat at 5 is what I'm really looking for advice on
but if the feat your picking for 5 is to build up to something feel free to use the other feats to explain the direction your heading.
Feats at 5,7,8,9,11,12
Well the obvious feat for level 5 is Weapon Specialization.
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I would disagree heavily with weapon specialization. A bonus 2 damage, esp when you're not going to dual wield isn't very strong, and it's a fairly boring feat.
An important feat for swashbucklers is Combat Reflexes, unless I missed an entry that gives them more AoOs.
I also find the Step up Chain to be fun.
If you're not attached to the falcata (I would understand why) you can go w/ a martial weapon, and trade out your swordtraining for claws, which effectively give you Improved Unarmed Strike so you can go for the plethora of style feats out there.
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Having claws does not grant you IUS for the purpose of qualifying for feats. He would have to take IUS and Feral Combat Trainingto be able to take and use style feats with his claw attacks.
This is normally the case, but the Tengu is an exception.
Use a wakizashi for the first level or two. See if you can use GM credit or play an adventure path's first volume for campaign mode credit to go directly from level 1 to level 3. Skulls and Shackles is an excellent choice for this and suits the style of a swashbuckler.
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The style feats is actually not a bad idea but not the way I want to go with this char.
Contemplating taking 2 levels of paladin at lvl 6/7.
Swashbuckler saves suck and multi-classing into paladin is an instant fix but this is just so anti thematic. From a min/max perspective though Divine grace and lay on hands is just too good. I'll have at least a 16 charisma at this point with items so muti-classing into +6 to both fort and will saves and 14ish extra health (lay on hands)
Basically I'm only losing out on +2 damage on Precise Strike to gain all of that. It's hard to convince myself that not being a cheese ball and just dealing with the saves is the right way to go.
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Daring Champion is a Cavalier archetype.
Samurai is an alternate class of Cavalier.
You cannot be a Daring Champion, and a Samurai.
Whoops I meant cavalier archetype. My brain sorta fuzzled there. Sidenote, I thought samurai/ninja could take their classes archetypes so long as they still have the abilities being replaced.
That is correct. Unfortunately, the Samurai does not still have the abilities the Daring Champion replaces.
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I wish Holy Gun paladins weren't banned.
Sometimes I really hate PFS.
This would probably be the only example of that archetype not being complete crap as it would give more panache and still give the bonuses to the saves and actually not feal like as much of a power-gaming douche move as its semi thematic for the swashbuckler.
I have to say, On my own swashbuckler I'm contemplating the paladin dip for a level or 3. Its a definite change in character, but one i think works well with the pathfinder societies faction changes. The saves are just so incredibly bad otherwise you can't last on the front lines.
Items to look out for:
The Plume of penache: needs a little tweaking on the wording, but the intent is pretty much there. Effectively an extra penache point per day
Swordsmans flare: Blue scarf. Takes up an off hand, but gives you reach. Since you need combat reflexes to parry anyway and have a high dex, it makes where you stand between the bad guys and the party an absolute kill zone.
Move up, activate scarf.
Goblin approaches, aoo. Goblin attacks. Parry riposte stab.
I think the Plume of Panache is pretty clear. It's one extra panache point per day, but it can't be regenerated like normal panache can be.
you can use a buckler with the scarf. A buckler leaves your hand free, thats the advantage of it over a small shield.
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I did not notice those items when i read through the new items.
Thanks wolf
Swashscarfer - new Archetype
Uses bladded scarf in offhand and as a full round action (aka something you would normally do outside of combat) you can change the ability your scarf has to any of the abilities listed for flair.
So I have been thinking on this. If you want to get more mileage on your bite you could go into Duelist. Get Precise Strike damage on your bite as well as your sword.
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I was looking into prestige classes, heres what i looked at with duelist (spoiler- it mostly sucks):
Feats: needs both dodge and mobility. so at the earliest 5 for dodge 7 for mobility
Saves: they still suck by going this route
Buckler: several abilities require no shield
Canny Defense: useless no int bonus with my build
Precise Strike: every point i gain here is a point lost on precise strike with swashbuckler so there is no actual gain
Improved Reaction: Meh my initiative is already really good
Parry: This combined with Opportune Parry and Riposte could be interesting. This is about the only reason to consider picking up this class
Enhanced Mobility: not bad but I'm using acrobatics most of the time
Combat Reflexes: Combat Reflexes for free yay but in-order to get the qualifying feats I'm not looking at seeing this till lvl 11 so I gain this for all of 1 lvl.
[FYI: I hope I'm not coming across as being an @$$ (aka the "spoiler" part was meant to be funny not snide) when I counter a suggestion. Even if I don't like a particular suggestion it sometimes leads to finding other ideas, so please don't take my responses as a lack of appreciation to everyone's input. Also I admit to being new to pathfinder so if in my explanation of why I don't like the idea I'm missing or over looking something please call my attention to it]
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The gain is duelist precise strike works with your beak, while swashbuckler precise strike doesn't. You could switch to the int focused archetype and use a rapier instead, that would give you the int to make use of the duelist's canny defense.
Over all it's still not a great option, but if you build for it from level 1, it's not terrible.
Precise Strike: every point i gain here is a point lost on precise strike with swashbuckler so there is no actual gain.
There is gain. Duelist increases damage on your bite while Swashbuckler doesn't.
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Precise Strike: every point i gain here is a point lost on precise strike with swashbuckler so there is no actual gain.There is gain. Duelist increases damage on your bite while Swashbuckler doesn't.
Swashduelist
Level 12 - 6 levels in Swash and 6 levels in duelist+12 damage on main weapon and +6 damage on beak.
If this was not PFS I would see it working exactly like this after a discussion with GM to confirm that RAI it makes sense to stack the 2 precise strike abilities on my sword attacks.
However by RAW (PFS) it's my understanding this would run into issues with the "same benefits not stacking" rules. This would mean in a PFS game having to pick ONE of the precise strike abilities to apply to the attacks with my sword.
So
SB - SB+D (swashbuckler precise strike - Swash PS on sword|Duleist PS on beak)
7 - 6+1 (lvl 7 SB - lvl 6SB|lvl 1D)
8 - 6+2
9 - 6+3
10 - 6+4
11 - 6+5
12 - 6+6 (lvl 12 SB - lvl 6SB|lvl 6D)
13 - 7+7 (SD starts using duelist PS on both attacks)
Comes out to exactly the same damage except the duelist damage is on the harder to hit with beak. Its not till the bonus hits +7 that the damage surpasses a straight swashbuckler which happens to be lvl 13 at the earliest and thus of no benefit in PFS.
There is a clause in the ACG about similar effects not stacking in regards to parent classes, but Duelist is not a parent class of Swashbuckler. It would take a pretty vindictive GM that would rule that way, at least in my opinion. I'll make a thread in the rules section.
Early results from the rules thread are in - Swashbuckler and Duelist precise strike both stack in the good way.
If you were to implement the concept I think you would be ok, even in PFS.
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Ya I may consider going this route
With the current plan 1-5 swash
6-7 pally (i hate the flavor of this but the bonus to saves is too much to ignore)
8-12 Duleist
This gives me the same feats 1-4 as my first post
5 dodge
7 mobility
going this route I'm only one level behind the "optimal" duelist build (aka duelist at 6) but still end up with great saves
Not sure if this is the right direction but its defently a thought to consider thanks
If you're dead-set on getting charisma to saves but don't want to be a paladin, there is a new feat Divine Protection that gives non-paladins paladin-like saves.
The catch is you need 2nd-level divine spells to qualify. Would Cleric 3 or Warpriest 4 be more palatable than Paladin 2?
Also, do you REALLY need Divine Grace? If you take the trait Irrepresible and the feat Steadfast Personality, you can basically get your charisma bonus twice-over on most Will saves. And your Reflex saves are already good.
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Why not just go full Swashbuckler? Dodge and Mobility are disappointing feats to say the least, and you're missing out on one of the most broken possibilities in the game by not going 7th level Swashbuckler. The 14k Cape of Feinting combined with the superior Feint deed allows you to infinitely Daze an opponent (and daze works on pretty much everything). You'll also get a ton more feats, from freeing up the dodge/mobility prereq to getting swashbuckler bonus feats.
Even in PFS, I feel like no GM in the world is ever going to allow the dazelock from Cape of Feinting + Superior Feint...
Although I guess maybe PFS is one of the less broken formats for that combo to go down, considering you won't ever see a CR+10 enemy.
I heard that the Cape of Feinting is going to be unavailable in PFS soon. Aside from that he is worried about saves and you are asking him to give up the cloak of resistance which seems counterproductive.
The main idea of going into Duelist from Swashbuckler is to improve the bite attack that a Tengu gets. Are there trade offs for doing so? Absolutely. It was just an idea that I thought of and presented as an option. No one is threatening him with a rock to do it....
*picks up a rock*
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@Kiin - This was the main reason I was not looking at going into duelist. Dodge is pretty garbage (a feat for +1 really?), Mobility isn't nearly as bad, nut I'm also losing the bonus feat at 8. so going duelist is not completely out of the realm of possibilities. It is defiantly something I will at least think about when I get to that point.
Ideally, I really do want to stay pure Swash but I have a feeling the piss poor will save is going to end getting me killed if I do.
Dipping into pally gains me a huge boost to saves at 0 feat cost and I can still dance around a creature going "I'm so pretty, oh so pretty" at lvl 9. I think I can live with that.