CR and Template Questions

[Perpetr8r]

Alright so I know CR is different then LA. But from what I have seen a CR of 1 does not come with an actual level adjustment. So a CR 1 creature is a level 1 creature when he has a level of a class. At least according to the CR 1s I have seen.

Now what if you applies the Simple Template: Advanced (CR + 1) to a creature without a full CR to begin with. For example a Human.

Does their CR go to CR 1 (Remembering CR is calculated as full CR)

Would this give you an Empty level or would you be a level 1 Character with 1 level of class.

[wraithstrike]

Sometimes you have to ad-hoc CR and XP.

A human with a PC class is a CR 1/2. As the GM you can make him a CR 1 or a CR 2.

If you are not sure there is chart in the bestiary with average stats of CR's. Whichever one most closely matched the human after receiving the advanced template is what I would use.

If it still is not clear then I would adjust his stats up or down.

Quote:

Ad Hoc CR Adjustments: While you can adjust a specific monster's CR by advancing it, applying templates, or giving it class levels, you can also adjust an encounter's difficulty by applying ad hoc adjustments to the encounter or creature itself.

[Perpetr8r]

Advanced under the Rewritten rules adds +4 to all Stats and a +2 Natural Armor.

Now for a human this can be just they are more hardy then normal humans.

But if we are using a point buy I can see this working alright, as low end point buys can be rough on builds. But if we roll and they do moderately well (12-16) this is a serious power boost.

[wraithstrike]

Players don't have CR's. Are you trying to figure what level to count the players as?

[Perpetr8r]

Races like humans have a CR of 1/2 or 1/4 depending on the race. They are counted as being lvl 1 when they take a class level. CR 1 is counted as being the same as a Class level 1 character

I think...

[Bob Bob Bob]

The purpose of CR is as a rough estimate of what resources a party of 3-5 players is expected to consume when fighting that monster. That is all it does. A race with no racial hit dice has to derive its CR from class levels. A PC class has a CR of level-1 and an NPC class has a CR of level-2, and this increases by 1 if you give them PC level wealth instead of NPC level wealth. These rules at no point interact with player characters except when they kill them.

Templates add an extra layer of difficulty to this, as they're generally not balanced in any combination. A Young Giant creature gets a free +2 dex and +1 NA. The Advanced template is meant to be something you slap on a monster so it's slightly more of a challenge, not something you use for free stats. Again, these don't interact with player characters unless they're killing them.

[wraithstrike]

Perpetr8r wrote:

Races like humans have a CR of 1/2 or 1/4 depending on the race. They are counted as being lvl 1 when they take a class level. CR 1 is counted as being the same as a Class level 1 character

I think...

Nope. They need 2 class levels to be CR 1 and CR 1 is not equal to a level 1 PC. If you convert a PC into a CR the CR is at least equal to their class levels, while NPC's with PC class level are one CR below their class levels.

Level 3 NPC = CR 2

Level 3 PC = CR 3 +

[Perpetr8r]

Alright I was curious because of the Advanced Human thing for a character named Chuck Norris. He thought it would be funny to make a character who uses Brawler (Steel-Breaker) named Charles 'Chuck' Norris.

[Bob Bob Bob]

The difference between an Advanced Human and a Human only appears if you're using point buy or some other method that assigns a value to stats or uses fixed stats. A human with all 14s who takes the advanced template is only +2 NA different from a human who rolled all 18s. If you want the flavor of "supreme human" there's always Azlanti Pureblood human variant (I think) who replaces the +2 to any stat with +2 to all stats.

[Perpetr8r]

Where is that from?

[wraithstrike]

Perpetr8r wrote:

Where is that from?

It is a version of humans from Golarion. They have mostly died out in the setting. 99.999% of humans are the typical ones from the CRB.

[Perpetr8r]

Are they in a specific book or website?

[wraithstrike]

Perpetr8r wrote:

Are they in a specific book or website?

They are in the Inner Sea World Guide Campaign Setting book, page 12.

[Perpetr8r]

Thank You, this will be more helpful. I just thought of Advanced Template because.. you know its Chuck Norris.