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In my search for nice things for martials i thought it would be interesting to make combat maneuvers more accessible for characters that do not specialize in them, so this is what I thought of:
Combat Maneuver Proficiency
A character that is proficient with a combat maneuver does not provoke attacks of opportunity when attempting that maneuver. Taking any feat called Improved [combat maneuver name] grants proficiency with that combat maneuver.
Combat Maneuver Proficiencies by class
Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Cavalier, Antipaladin, Samurai, Bloodrager, Brawler, Slayer, Swashbuckler: Proficient with all Combat Maneuvers.
Magus, Hunter, Skald, Warpriest: Proficient with the bull rush, drag, grapple, reposition and trip Combat Maneuvers.
Bard, Rogue, Ninja, Inquisitor, Alchemist, Gunslinger, Investigator: Proficient with the dirty trick, disarm, reposition steal and trip Combat Maneuvers.
Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Oracle, Summoner, Witch, Arcanist, Shaman: Proficient with no combat maneuvers.
Other classes (3rd party and future classes): Compare the class's weapon proficiencies, BAB and its role to the above classes and use whichever fits most. (For example a full bab class with proficiency with all martial weapons would normally have the same CM-proficiencies as a fighter, but if the class is focused on ranged weapons it perhaps should be using those of the gunslinger instead).
Archetypes: Any archetypes that focus on using combat maneuvers by granting class features involving combat maneuvers or combat maneuver related feats as bonus feats (but not bonus feat options if alternative options are not combat maneuver related) have all combat maneuver proficiencies.
Creature Types: Outsiders (except for elementals and eidolons) and Dragons are proficient with all combat menuvers. Other creature types are only proficient with combat maneuvers if they have special attacks or natural attacks using those combat maneuvers. (for example a wolf is proficient with the trip combat maneuver) Monstrous humanoids and humanoids with racial hit dice are roficient with the dirty trick, disarm, reposition steal and trip Combat Maneuvers. Fey are proficient with the dirty trick, disarm, reposition steal and trip Combat Maneuvers.
Any comments are welcome, if you think the combat proficiencies by class make sense, or if this is a good idea at all.
Perhaps there could also be traits that grant proficiency with one combat maneuver each and a feat that grants profession with any two and can be taken multiple times.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying:
1. Certain classes should begin the game with, effectively, improved <insert combat maneuver> for free.
2. If you want additional combat maneuver proficiencies outside the scope of what is available for your class, you must select the improved <insert combat maneuver> feat.
3. Full casters get none as starting.
I really like that idea.
A lot.
I like the basic idea of this a lot. I don't know about all of those classes getting every CM without provoking AoOs, but I could get behind a bonus to AC vs the AoO it provokes. The reason is that with multi classing, the breakdown stops mattering. Being proficient in all martial weapons is less powerful than being 'proficient' in all CMs, IMO.
The trait idea is also a pretty good idea, and that could a way to not provoke. If the character later picks up the feat, it could translate to a +1 or +2.
I like the basic idea of this a lot. I don't know about all of those classes getting every CM without provoking AoOs
Perhaps x number of maneuvers of their choice?
Thats better. What about an AC bonus to the AoO? That way the feats still give an important benefit.
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there are three layers of combat maneuver 'privilege' - (if you will).
1) no provocation
2) only provocation on failed roll
3) provocation but incurs no penalty
if you wanted to grant 'proficiency' with a combat maneuver, consider 2 or 3 as well. don't get me wrong!: however you do it, i would strictly polarize it rather than offer 'shades' of proficiency - i just want to throw out some options all of which are better than option four:
4) provocation incurs penalty (aka standard)
I spotted a mistake in my opening post: actually monstrous humanoids and humanoids with racial hit dice should be proficient with bull rush, drag, grapple, reposition and trip combat maneuvers
If I understand you correctly, you're saying:
1. Certain classes should begin the game with, effectively, improved <insert combat maneuver> for free.
2. If you want additional combat maneuver proficiencies outside the scope of what is available for your class, you must select the improved <insert combat maneuver> feat.
3. Full casters get none as starting.I really like that idea.
A lot.
Well improved combat maneuver feats also grant a +2 bonus to the maneuver's CMB and CMD, so these classes get a light version of the imprved feat effectively while the actual feat is still a benefit. But I'm glad you like the idea.
I like the basic idea of this a lot. I don't know about all of those classes getting every CM without provoking AoOs, but I could get behind a bonus to AC vs the AoO it provokes. The reason is that with multi classing, the breakdown stops mattering. Being proficient in all martial weapons is less powerful than being 'proficient' in all CMs, IMO.
The trait idea is also a pretty good idea, and that could a way to not provoke. If the character later picks up the feat, it could translate to a +1 or +2.
With both martial combat and multiclassing being considered somewhat subpar, I don't worry about it too much. I want to give all of these proficiencies to these lasses because all these maneuvers are in my mind a core part of melee combat, both realistically and cinematically, fighters constantly grab, pull, shove, trip, disarm etc their opponents and i would think all of these are a core part of any martial training.
By the way:
NPC class combat maneuver proficiencies:
Warrior: As fighter
Aristocrat, Expert: As Rogue
Commoner, Adept: As wizard
It might not be a bad idea to go a little old-school in some respects, i.e. grant maneuvers based on an AD&D 2e style weapon/non-weapon proficiency table.
I'll give an example:
Combat Maneuver Proficiencies by class
- Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Cavalier, Antipaladin, Samurai, Bloodrager, Brawler, Slayer, Swashbuckler: Proficient with 4 Combat Maneuvers of their choice. At 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, gain proficiency in an additional combat maneuver.
- Alchemist, Bard, Gunslinger, Hunter, Inquisitor, Investigator, Magus, Ninja, Rogue, Skald, Warpriest: Proficient with 2 Combat Maneuvers of their choice. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, gain proficiency in an additional combat maneuver.
- Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Oracle, Summoner, Witch, Arcanist, Shaman: Proficient with 1 Combat Maneuver of their choice. At 6th level and every six levels thereafter, gain proficiency in an additional combat maneuver.
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or you could consider:
full BAB - never provokes
3/4 BAB - provokes only upon failure
1/2 BAB - provocation but incurs no penalty
with the following maneuvers only (if high enough ability score):
ST 13 - bullrush, rag, grapple, overrun
DX 13 - disarm, steal, trip
INT 13 - dirty trick, reposition
CHA 13 - feint, goad (new)
and
Goad
choose an enemy within 60 feet of you
roll Bluff (language-dependent) or Intimidate against feint maneuver defense (FMD)
if success, foe takes -2 to attack and save/ability DCs against anyone but you for 1 round
success or failure, only works once per enemy per 24 hour period (ie "1/foe/day")