Having recently finished my initial readthrough of the ACG, I see no reason whatsoever that Swashbucklers should be consigned to a vastly worse version of Divine Grace. I'm making an executive decision that in any game I run, Charmed Life and Divine Grace will simply be two names for the same ability. This does, however, leave gaps in a Swashbuckler's level progression a 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. Does anyone have suggestions for what could fill those newly dead levels?
Sounds O to the P to me. Divine Grace is one of the best class features in all of Pathfinder.
Sounds O to the P to me. Divine Grace is one of the best class features in all of Pathfinder.
It's not OP to give good saves to a class with no spells. As it happens, the Swashbuckler has both a poor Fortitude and poor Will save progression. And both its parent classes have good Fortitude. Figure that one out.
And have you seen the new Divine Protection feat? Divine Grace for Oracles, Clerics, and Warpriests, as a feat they basically auto-qualify for at level 5.
If Divine Grace is overpowered for a Swashbuckler to have, it's vastly overpowered for a Paladin to have, given they have *two* good saves to start with, and in the most important categories to cover, no less. Swashbucklers don't even get Evasion to go with their Reflex save until 11th level, and that's dependent on not running out of panache.
Sounds O to the P to me. Divine Grace is one of the best class features in all of Pathfinder.It's not OP to give good saves to a class with no spells. As it happens, the Swashbuckler has both a poor Fortitude and poor Will save progression. And both its parent classes have good Fortitude. Figure that out.
And have you seen the new Divine Protection feat? Divine Grace for Oracles, Clerics, and Warpriests, as a feat they basically auto-qualify for at level 5.
Divine protection? That feat sounds broken as hell and I can't even find it on the srd.
Divine protection? That feat sounds broken as hell and I can't even find it on the srd.Sounds O to the P to me. Divine Grace is one of the best class features in all of Pathfinder.It's not OP to give good saves to a class with no spells. As it happens, the Swashbuckler has both a poor Fortitude and poor Will save progression. And both its parent classes have good Fortitude. Figure that out.
And have you seen the new Divine Protection feat? Divine Grace for Oracles, Clerics, and Warpriests, as a feat they basically auto-qualify for at level 5.
It's in the Advanced Class Guide. Funny story: The very day the book was released, this feat was banned in PFS.
Divine Protection
Your deity protects you against deadly attacks.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells; blessings, domains, or mystery class feature.
Benefit: You gain a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on all saving throws. If your Charisma modifier is already applied as a bonus on all saving throw (such as from the divine grace class feature), you instead gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws.
Just goes to show that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Either that, or the same person wrote and OK'ed both Charmed Life and Divine Protection, which would just floor me. To be completely frank, Charmed Life is a poor band-aid for the Swashbuckler's bad saves.
Divine protection? That feat sounds broken as hell and I can't even find it on the srd.Sounds O to the P to me. Divine Grace is one of the best class features in all of Pathfinder.It's not OP to give good saves to a class with no spells. As it happens, the Swashbuckler has both a poor Fortitude and poor Will save progression. And both its parent classes have good Fortitude. Figure that out.
And have you seen the new Divine Protection feat? Divine Grace for Oracles, Clerics, and Warpriests, as a feat they basically auto-qualify for at level 5.
It's in the Advanced Class Guide. Funny story: The very day the book was released, this feat was banned in PFS.
Just goes to show that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Either that, or the same person wrote and OK'ed both Charmed Life and Divine Protection, which would just floor me. To be completely frank, Charmed Life is a poor band-aid for the Swashbuckler's bad saves.Divine Protection
Your deity protects you against deadly attacks.
Prerequisites: Cha 13, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks, ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells; blessings, domains, or mystery class feature.
Benefit: You gain a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on all saving throws. If your Charisma modifier is already applied as a bonus on all saving throw (such as from the divine grace class feature), you instead gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws.
Eh. Sounds like a new fighter variant to me, then.
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The version I'm considering is that every level a Swashbuckler gets Charmed Life, she may apply her Charisma modifier as a permanent bonus to one of the following things:
Fortitude Save.
Reflex Save.
Will Save.
Initiative.
All Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, and Swim checks.
One type of combat maneuver checks (Disarm, for example) and CMD to defend against that maneuver.
So, you get one of those six options at 2nd level, another at 6th, a third at 10th, a fourth at 14th, and a fifth at 18th.
That makes the ability spread out over the levels in question, and thus not just a Divine Grace retread, while still making it highly useful and effective. It also make Swashbucklers excellent at combat maneuvers if they like, which seems thematically appropriate.
I might add another option or two, though I'm still considering what.
In terms of game design, I prefer Charmed Life because it adds more gameplay to the class. It's an active ability that requires tactical decision making. One of the reasons I love the swashbuckler is because it's a class all about giving a player tools to actively participate in combat rather than give them a bag of passive stats. So changing it to a passive ability, especially one as insanely powerful as Divine Grace, does not appeal to me.
Instead, I would allow the swashbuckler to use Charmed Life after rolling a save, but before determining the results. This puts it in line with similar roll modification abilities and allows the swashbuckler to make better informed decisions of when to use it.
In terms of game design, I prefer Charmed Life because it adds more gameplay to the class. It's an active ability that requires tactical decision making. One of the reasons I love the swashbuckler is because it's a class all about giving a player tools to actively participate in combat rather than give them a bag of passive stats. So changing it to a passive ability, especially one as insanely powerful as Divine Grace, does not appeal to me.
Instead, I would allow the swashbuckler to use Charmed Life after rolling a save, but before determining the results. This puts it in line with similar roll modification abilities and allows the swashbuckler to make better informed decisions of when to use it.
Would you prefer a rule that allows the Swashbuckler to use multiple immediate actions in one round, but those additional actions may only be used to perform deeds?