Hey Folks,
A very specific situation popped up this week during our session. We actually just hit the part of "Rise of the Rune Lords" where the Scarecrows are actually Ghouls, trying to pull an elaborate ruse to further continue killing innocent farm hands.
A very interesting debate popped up during the encounter.
According to the rules the Ghoul's claw attacks are typically/specifically the ones that trigger the saving throw or Paralysis.
If a PC open mouth kissed a Ghoul, would the poison deliver... and cause the PC to make a save?
Thanks for any feedback provided!
-Kemmen
Both claws and bite trigger paralysis and it's not a poison, probably supernatural. Open mouth kissing a ghoul would def expose you to a case of ghoul fever and perhaps paralysis depending on the amount of tongue.
Seriously though, my take on the paralysis is that it is the effect of coming face-to-face with one's mortality that the touch of the creature forces. Not RAW but I treat it as a fear effect and any direct skin to undead skin contact would need a save.
Would it auto trigger with the living creature, if the ghoul was doing it consensually? Say by a charm/domination spell?
Seriously -- do you think the ghoul would even try to resist the temptation to bite whoever is kissing it?
Would it auto trigger with the living creature, if the ghoul was doing it consensually? Say by a charm/domination spell?Rephrasing the question...
Does the paralysis have to be delivered as an attack?
My answer is yes. The bestiary entry lists the paralysis under the claw and bite attacks. These are normal attacks, not touch attacks.
Applying this logic to the ghoul-kissing. I would say kissing does not transmit the disease or paralysis. It can only be delivered as an attack i.e. breaking the skin. But I can see how a GM might want to apply the condition on a kiss. The only gray area is whether these things would apply to nonlethal attacks by the ghoul.
yeah, not a touch attack- they still have to get past the armor to hit skin. just my take on things.
depending on how rough the kiss is there could be breaking skin. A consensual victim could mean waiving a save depending or at least not defending against the 'attack'.
Would it auto trigger with the living creature, if the ghoul was doing it consensually? Say by a charm/domination spell?
....ok, what are you looking to even do here? And is there some reason why you can't do it with an elf or half elf, who are immune to this ghoul stuff?
The only explanation for 'why' I can think of is a secret villain that you want to creep people out with. And if you REALLY want to creep the players out, then DON'T make the villain immune to paralysis..... for all the creepy implications you can imagine resulting from that. (obviously have some way to protect from disease, and a quick way to cure paralysis for the villain, since they need to get to their monologues).
Seriously -- do you think the ghoul would even try to resist the temptation to bite whoever is kissing it?
Ghouls are described as preferring rotten meat (which usually means killing victims and leaving them to....'age'). They only go for fresh meat if they are very hungry... and if this is a secret villain helping ghouls, the circumstances would probably lead to them making sure the ghouls aren't hungry.