It would be pretty cool if he could naturally run towards other groups of goblins.
Goblin Squad Member
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It would certainly be adding a lot to their A.I., so this would be a significant task for the programming team. They'd have to make each individual mob aware of the location of all other mobs in the area, and then make judgement calls based how many are left in their group, how close they are to other groups... etc.
But it certainly would be cool.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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It's a cool idea, but it just isn't the low-hanging fruit on improved AI.
The easiest close approach would be a monster recognizing that it was over matched and running away from enemies/towards friends. Even that level of sophistication is hard to figure in the general case.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's a cool idea, but it just isn't the low-hanging fruit on improved AI.
The easiest close approach would be a monster recognizing that it was over matched and running away from enemies/towards friends. Even that level of sophistication is hard to figure in the general case.
Not knowing how their current logic works, I would not imagine this being THAT difficult. It would sort of be like an inverse aggro detection. Instead of looking for enemies to move into the 'aggro hit box' you activate a 'find friend hit box'. Same functionality of find target and approach, only instead of using any attack logic, it is purely "run to identified friend". Start out with making it random or the closest. Then you can refine over time to account for numbers of strength.
All the components should actually be in place for a crude first implementation.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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I don't know that setting up runners is that hard, in the grand scheme of things. It's just that they don't tend to be particularly fun for players. If they run and don't get help, you just wind up sitting around for the remaining creature to come strolling back after forgetting why he was terrified in the first place. If they bring friends, you can often wind up with a whole overwhelming cascade of creatures when you thought you were picking on something you could handle. Our aggro distance and group aggro is already higher than a lot of MMOs (in that you will get the whole group and get it fairly far away), so you can already pull multiple groups if you're not careful, which should account for it being fun to sometimes bite off more than you intended and win anyway.
Which is to say, the problem is less about programming it, and more about it falling on the wrong side of "Creatures behave enough like enemy players to not train you wrong for PvP" vs. "Creatures are nearly as deadly as enemy players and thus extremely stressful to fight."
If they bring friends, you can often wind up with a whole overwhelming cascade of creatures when you thought you were picking on something you could handle.
On the other hand, if the monster gets Opportunity while he runs (or perhaps even a special flag to make him easy to spot), this could be a fun, high-pressure moment where you have to hurry to shoot down the runner. If you ignore the easy target, you may have another fight on your hands lickety-split.
I don't see anything wrong with such a scenario. It could also be a scenario specific to certain monsters—goblin messengers, ogre runts, bandit recruits.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I don't know that setting up runners is that hard, in the grand scheme of things. It's just that they don't tend to be particularly fun for players. If they run and don't get help, you just wind up sitting around for the remaining creature to come strolling back after forgetting why he was terrified in the first place. If they bring friends, you can often wind up with a whole overwhelming cascade of creatures when you thought you were picking on something you could handle. Our aggro distance and group aggro is already higher than a lot of MMOs (in that you will get the whole group and get it fairly far away), so you can already pull multiple groups if you're not careful, which should account for it being fun to sometimes bite off more than you intended and win anyway.
Which is to say, the problem is less about programming it, and more about it falling on the wrong side of "Creatures behave enough like enemy players to not train you wrong for PvP" vs. "Creatures are nearly as deadly as enemy players and thus extremely stressful to fight."
Making runners is easy. Making runners that are smart enough without being too smart is hard. Drawing aggro from every goblin in the hex when you attack any goblin is easy. Drawing aggro from the amount of goblins that make sense is hard.
I would like to see some tougher goblin champions, and even a few spawns of goblins that, like Fallen Paladin cluster, can make a group pause before steamrolling them. I hope that idea is just waiting on some more awesome artwork for the next tier of goblin. (Advanced Goblin Cleric of Zarongel, anyone?)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It would certainly be adding a lot to their A.I., so this would be a significant task for the programming team. They'd have to make each individual mob aware of the location of all other mobs in the area, and then make judgement calls based how many are left in their group, how close they are to other groups... etc.
But it certainly would be cool.
I don't think they have to make each individual mob aware of all other mobs in the area. The mob just has to have an ever expanding friend-or-foe radar that polls outward while it is running until it finds friends. Sorta like an aggro range.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I don't think they have to make each individual mob aware of all other mobs in the area. The mob just has to have an ever expanding friend-or-foe radar that polls outward while it is running until it finds friends. Sorta like an aggro range.It would certainly be adding a lot to their A.I., so this would be a significant task for the programming team. They'd have to make each individual mob aware of the location of all other mobs in the area, and then make judgement calls based how many are left in their group, how close they are to other groups... etc.
But it certainly would be cool.
Omniscience is easier to do than partial knowledge.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Likely alpha streamers on Twitch for
Friday August 1:
10:00pm UTC/London
3:00pm PDT
4:00pm MDT
5:00pm CDT
6:00pm EDT
goblinworks -------- nihimon ------------ alexander_damocles
morbismia ---------- cbdunkerson ------ deciusbrutus
kitsune_aou -------- nihimon ------------ oncallgm
sdshannons -------- dakcenturi --------- dariotashavan
If any of these are defunct, or any others will be running, please let me know.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't know that setting up runners is that hard, in the grand scheme of things. It's just that they don't tend to be particularly fun for players. If they run and don't get help, you just wind up sitting around for the remaining creature to come strolling back after forgetting why he was terrified in the first place. If they bring friends, you can often wind up with a whole overwhelming cascade of creatures when you thought you were picking on something you could handle. Our aggro distance and group aggro is already higher than a lot of MMOs (in that you will get the whole group and get it fairly far away), so you can already pull multiple groups if you're not careful, which should account for it being fun to sometimes bite off more than you intended and win anyway.
Which is to say, the problem is less about programming it, and more about it falling on the wrong side of "Creatures behave enough like enemy players to not train you wrong for PvP" vs. "Creatures are nearly as deadly as enemy players and thus extremely stressful to fight."
I'm on the side of the critters, make 'em dangerous and to be treated with respect. I mean when crossing a field with young bullocks in it, you have to watch your step around these excitable and large herbivores, especially when they decide to suddenly start doing laps of the field with a bit of cross-country steeple-chase thrown in! Puts things into perspective sword and cape or not.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Likely alpha streamers on Twitch for
Friday August 1:
10:00pm UTC/London
3:00pm PDT
4:00pm MDT
5:00pm CDT
6:00pm EDTgoblinworks -------- nihimon ------------ alexander_damocles
morbismia ---------- cbdunkerson ------ deciusbrutus
kitsune_aou -------- nihimon ------------ oncallgm
sdshannons -------- dakcenturi --------- dariotashavanIf any of these are defunct, or any others will be running, please let me know.
I think Nihimon has only one stream...
Come along, grab your friends
We're going to very distant lands