Vampire Domination and blood drain

[kirowan]

Does a Vampire Domination allow him to Pin and Drain the blood of his victim? I mean, is the victim allowed a Saving Throw +2 because she is doing a self-destructive order?

[Pizza Lord]

Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Orders against a target's nature get a new save with a bonus.

If the vampire were to command, "Come here so I can kill you," that would not be carried out, though it doesn't appear to end control.

If the vampire were to say, "Come here and give me a hug. Don't resist." Then it would probably be able to get the pin locked in for free. If giving hugs or getting hugs were somehow against a character's very nature, then they could make a save at +2.

If the vampire were to command, "Come here and bare your throat so I can drink your blood," that isn't obviously self destructive unless the target has seen the vampire slay or drain others to death. It isn't obviously destructive and as for the nature of it, some people have no problem sharing blood, or feeding vampires. Even a good person might view it as keeping the vampire from having to go into town and possibly hunt others.

As for being turned into an undead, most might consider that destructive, but others actively hunt such options. So a command to that affect might be ignored or not.

Be very careful about what players declare is against their nature or they will try and get out of everything. "It's against my nature to attack my allies!" "It's against my nature to assist a vampire by letting it control me!" "It's against my nature to pick trash up off the ground!" "It's against my nature to leave the room, stay out of a fight, or not assist my allies while my allies are fighting a vampire. Also, I'm chaotic good, I'm a free spirit and can't stand being controlled! I naturally rebel against all forms of mind-control that take away free choice!"

Tell them that their resistance is already accounted for. They're naturally resisting and constantly fighting for control, but only actual commands against their very nature give a save, not just something they don't want to do because they're dominated.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Self-destructive doesn't require it to be fatal. "Stab yourself in the foot" is self-destructive. "Get your blood sucked" is also self-destructive, whether or not it'll be fatal.

Otherwise, I agree. Basically, "against their very nature" means it's something they would pretty much never, ever do, even if there were really good reasons.

Would they knock their friends unconscious? Probably, if, say, it was for their own good.

Would they stand by and let their loved ones be murdered? Probably not, unless the character is a real jerk.

Would they stand by and let their fellow partymembers be murdered? Probably, if the party is anything like the ones I've seen. Probably not, unless the party's not too close.

Would they cattle rustle through the Fantasy Vatican Equivalent? Probably, unless they're seriously fanatical.

Would they let someone kill or torture them? Probably not, especially since "self-destructive orders" are in a whole other clause.

Sometimes I think Charm Person is really the more powerful of the two. Anything of the above, save the last, can be forced with good enough roleplaying, good enough Charisma, and a well-placed Charm Person.