Hello guys, I have some questions about these spells and the effects that let the creature make additional attacks. The ranger of my party prepared a Bow Spirit spell in one of the last sessions, he casted upon himself and told me that it would have been able to make +3 attack: one for the effect of an Haste Spell, one for his Rapid Shot feat and one for the bow spirit spell. I was unsure about it, but I let him do it with the promise of understanding the situation later. My doubts come from the description of the spell Haste, which I recall to you here:
The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon. The attack is made using the creature's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a speed weapon, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can't use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)
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[/Haste]The bold part is the one that makes me wonder about the additional attacks. How do I understand what is a "similar" effect? Can everything that let you make an extra attack be considered an Haste-like effect? Even the Rapid shot feat?
Here's the Bow Spirit description:
A bow spirit is a shapeless force that hovers about you, taking ammunition from your quiver and firing it. For as long as the bow spirit lasts, you can spend a swift action to direct the bow spirit to fire an arrow or a bolt at a target of your choice, as if the bow spirit were firing the necessary ranged weapon. The bow spirit uses your base attack bonus plus your Dexterity modifier, as well as any bonuses and effects from feats you have that affect ranged attacks, or bonuses from the ammunition it uses. A bow spirit's attacks do not provoke attacks of opportunity. There must be ammunition available for the bow spirit to use, and it expends ammunition as if used by you.
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it says that you can take a swift action to fire an arrow. Would you describe this like a similar effect? Of course the problem rises also with Blessing of Fervor because it's the same concept.
Could you help me please?
Thanks
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Bow Spirit does not say that you take a swift action to fire an arrow. It states you take a swift action to direct the bow spirit to fire the arrow.
Bow Spirit is not an effect that speeds you up. It's an invisible servant that can make attacks when you direct it.
Haste stacks with it.
Edit: Also, since the Bow Spirit is making the attack, and the spell make no mention of a STR bonus to Damage, or your weapon's enhancement bonus. If the caster has a +4 bow but no magic ammunition, The attack from the Bow Spirit doesn't get the bow's bonus. If you have a Str bonus to damage and are using a composite bow, the Bow Spirit doesn't get it.
So this attack is likely going to be at a lower enhancement bonus and do less damage than a normal bow shot.
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Ok that's fine, what about Haste and Rapid shot stacking instead? Do you think they can work together?
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Yes. Rapid shot is a mundane ability that allows you to move more quickly at the cost of accuracy. It is not a speed effect.
Let me ask you this: If you were in melee and had Two Weapon fighting, you would you no longer be able to make an offhand attack because you were under the effect of a haste spell?
That's right I hadn't considered this. Ok maybe I was too literal, but it surprised me the amount of attack that my player was able to do , he made something like 120+ damage per round at 13th.
Anyway, thank you very much :)
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That's right I hadn't considered this. Ok maybe I was too literal, but it surprised me the amount of attack that my player was able to do , he made something like 120+ damage per round at 13th.
Anyway, thank you very much :)
Archers can stack a lot of attacks onto a full attack sequence.
I think with a Ranger you get upwards of ... 8 attacks by 16th level?
Manyshot, Rapid Shot, 4 attacks by BAB, 1 Haste, 1 Bow Spirit.
I believe the Zen Archer and Sohei can top that with the Zen Archer getting 7 Flurry, 1 ki point, and 1 haste for 9 and the Sohei getting 7 Flurry, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, ki point, haste for 11.
It all kind of averages out though. Ranger gets FE bonuses and spells like gravity bow, zen archer can apply his unarmed strike damage to his arrows, gets free Perfect Shot, can use abilities like Quivering Palm through his arrows, etc., and Sohei gets a couple more attacks than anyone else and weapon training bonuses.
Long story short - archery can be really good under favorable circumstances.