| pennywit |
After we went through a variation on Hargulka's Monster Kingdom (Thanks, Dudemeister!) my players have two small armies. VV doesn't have much to offer in the way of mass combat, but I'd like to spice it up a bit so that my players don't feel like they're keeping the armies for no reason, and I'd like to find used for those armies through the rest of the modules.
Right now, I'm just looking at VV. I'm toying with the idea that the Big V will try to pull undead servitors from places like the Valley of the Dead, the vanished Varnhold, and the Linnorm Graveyard. I haven't sketched beyond that yet, though.
Has anybody done anything like this?
| Damir |
One of the main issues I see is that a lot of the potential enemies are just so far away from the player's kingdom (especially with the Tors in the way). In most cases, it's a lot easier to just attack the party itself (and if someone like V succeeds in drawing them away by attacking their settlement, it becomes a back-and-forth adventure between pushing forward and running back to their realm). That being said:
- There is indeed V. Perhaps a defensive war? If it's foreshadowed enough, the party can bring an army along with them to break through his gathering horde.
- The Centaurs are a possibility at the beginning. Realizing that there is another group of human settlers prying into the Varnhold area (which might scare them if they had particularly bad experiences with the Varnhold) might provoke a preemptive attack.
This makes the Centaurs feel properly threatening and hostile, allowing for future events to make changes as both sides realize the real threats.
(They also might be provoked against Restov and/or that little village in the top line of hexes. Since Restov has pulled her troops north [right as their southern defense, in the form of the Varnhold, disappears], she might need to ask the party to come to her aid. Then you have a race to reinforce Restov's forces in time and a "home base" for the troops in the Varnhold region. This could be the initial hook for the adventure - "help us, then figure out why the Varnhold wasn't there to protect us like it should have been")
- Maybe the Spriggans you meet aren't the only ones? Maybe they're just a scouting/looting party (perhaps lead by the chieftan or a princeling - hence the treasure).
The party kills the small band that had advanced into the Varnhold and takes their treasure. The main Spriggan assembly then tries to get it back with actual armies.
- The old gate into the Shadow Plane could be a strange option - perhaps instead of fighting a few nasty shadow creatures, the party discovers that there's an army preparing to march out.
- You could foreshadow some of the cyclops themes by having a small group of cyclops gather together. Maybe they're unusually intelligent, trying to grasp a hold of some fragment of their past glory (possibly this desire is "awoken" in them due to some mystical tie to the main events, possibly some other enemy is actually leading them...).
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I'm interested to see what happens with this. My group is partially through the book* and have gained 2 small armies as well (due to a not-too-bloody takeover of the Varnhold).
*Or the general location and level of the book. My adventure's a bit different (V doesn't even exist - probably). Still, a lot of the army ideas might carry over.
| Philip Knowsley |
You could also create the spriggans as an army, & potentially the centaurs
if things don't go so well...
I like the thought of an undead army from the valley of the dead...
If you were keen on having Varnhold be a bit more populated before the big V
takes them all, you could also have a 'thrall' army of ex-Varnholders...you
know, just to create a bit of right & wrong kinda tension... ;-p
I'll be keeping an eye on what you do, as we're at a similar place in the
story. (Although I'll be running my players as NPCs through some of the
last books unfinished tales. e.g. the cult. I'll have the players play
people like Jhod, Akiros etc, which I hope will flesh out the NPCs a bit
more & have the players actually empathise with them a bit more...)
| Thrund |
Quick question: Can somebody give me a handle on what is going on, plotwise with the Swordlords at this point? I'm not entirely sure.
We're not really told, but my take on it is they're waiting for Orlovsky to start fighting Surtova so they can take over as much of Rostland as possible and take it independent again.
They're no longer supporting t1he PCs directly but they're going to want to maintain good relations in case they need someone to have their back.They don't call on the PCs' kindgom as part of the AP, but my idea for the endgame is to run the Return of Choral and have the Swordlords turn to them for help at that point, with the possibility of Rostland joining the PCs' kingdom as a reward.
| Lee Hanna |
I'm in pretty much the same boat, so I will be watching here, and thinking about it, too.
I like the undead army idea, as well as inflating the spriggans and/or centaurs to army status. Especially the one with the spriggans invading.
Allying with the centaurs against the spriggans and/or the undead would be a Good Thing.
OTOH, IMC, the nobles at Restov and N's Crossing are pretty friendly to the PCs. Maybe Grigori should stir up some stuff over here, and see if he can start a fight over the empty land?
| Damir |
Quick question: Can somebody give me a handle on what is going on, plotwise with the Swordlords at this point? I'm not entirely sure.
What Thrund said pretty much summarizes it. In a bit more detail:
- Brevoy is described as being on the brink of a civil war due to the disappearance of House Rogarvia. Other sources generally point to the main conflict being between House Orlovsky and House Surtova, but the AP suggests the Swordlords of Restov are looking to be a third faction as they want to make Restov (and perhaps all of the former lands of Rostland) independent again.
- The party's kingdom, as well as the Varnhold, were (somewhat unofficially, to avoid making House Surtova suspicious) set up by Restov in the hopes that they'd have friendly territories to their south rather than centaurs (which are described as having caused trouble for Restov in the past) and bandits (like the Stag Lord). They're not officially the party's allies/patrons anymore (again, to avoid suspicion), but probably have good relations with them.
- The Swordlords have pulled troops out of the south (there's a border fort they abandoned in VV where this is mentioned) due to tensions in Brevoy heating up (and the Swordlords wanting to be ready when war breaks out). What actually happens in Brevoy is pretty much up to you - I don't think it ever comes up in the AP (just continual mentions that it's getting closer to war).
Allying with the centaurs against the spriggans and/or the undead would be a Good Thing.
Yeah, and it could be interesting if the allies - like with many combined forces in history - had some communication and coordination issues. The party could give the rough idea of how the two armies would work together (where to meet, who takes on which opposing armies, etc.) but wouldn't see if the other army got delayed (or ambushed) or even possibly decided to take a different plan, leading to some uncertainty.
| pennywit |
Hmmm ... Currently, the Swordlords of Restov have an ambassador in my players' capital, a rather unpleasant individual named Craster Feksyev.
So, to set up Varnhold Vanishing, I ought to start with Craster announcing that the Swordlords have released the players from their vassalage. A few months later, the players' Grand Diplomat (or Spymaster) could report that the Swordlords have moved their own troops northward.
THEN we kick VV into motion.
I'll post later this evening with a few more ideas re: mass combat and such.
| pennywit |
I've got a finally have an idea. I'm going to sketch it out generally below. Could use some help fleshing it out (and I'll revisit here to flesh it out in the coming days).
I call this variant ....
The Big Idea: Vordakai, a formerly badass cyclops lich necromancer, has awakened from about a zillion years of torpor after an idiot adventurer grabbed a bracelet from his island and ran off.
After shaking off the sleep, Vordakai was kind of pissed. Things have changed since his time. The cyclops empires have long fallen. Ants known as "humans" and "elves" now rule the land. And worst of all, Vordakai missed the Age of Golarion Disco.
Now that he's up and about, the Big V is feeling ambitious and nostalgic for the good old days. He's going to remake the world the way it used to be. But since sleeping for millennia wiped away quite a bit of his power, he's going to have to start with subversion and subterfuge.
But ... he will succeed. The world will change back. And, most importantly ... Golarion Disco Will Live Again!!!
How's He Going to Do It? Since the Big V is a badass necromancer lich, he should, in the tradition of bad guys everywhere, stick with his theme. As I paged through the kingdom-building rules, lists of undead, and necromancy spells, I decided on ... disease.
Sucking up Varnhold's souls will not be Vordakai's first strike. Instead, he will foment trouble by kidnapping people -- farmers, hunters, trappers, explorers, and lawyers -- infecting them via the contagion spell, then sending them back to civilizations with their memories of him erased.
Vordakai's first wave will be strategically planted disease outbreaks in Varnhold, Sootscale, the PC Kingdom, and the Nomen centaurs. In each case, he will make sure that the disease that affects the populace can be traced to a visitor or refugee from a different kingdom. The idea is to spark a war while the Big V does his thing.
The fiddly bits:[/b ]
Here's the "Plague" kingdom event:
[b]Plague (Hex or Settlement, Continuous): A deadly sickness strikes the target hex or settlement. You cannot construct terrain improvements or buildings there while plague persists. Attempt two Stability checks, each with a penalty equal to the number of Brothels, Foreign Quarters, Highways, Inns, Piers, Roads, Stables, Stockyards, Tenements, and Waterfronts in the hex, and a bonus equal to the number of Alchemists, Cathedrals, Herbalists, Hospitals, and Temples in the hex. If you succeed at both checks, the event ends, but Stability decreases by 2 and Treasury by 1d3 BP. If you fail at one check, Stability decreases by 4, Treasury decreases by 1d6 BP, and Unrest increases by 1d3. If you fail at both, Stability decreases by 4, Treasury decreases by 1d6 BP, Unrest increases by 1d6, and in the next Event phase the plague spreads to an adjacent hex.
Rules Trivia: I'll just have the kingdom make two stability rolls, but I think I ought to treat the penalties as per hex infected. So, if the kingdom fails both Stability checks, and two hexes are affected, they'll Is that too much?
The first plague will seem a kingdom event -- I'm going to roll dice as if I'm checking for a kingdom event. A new plague event will hit about one every three months until my players start getting proactive.
By about the third plague event, the players will receive a visit from the Sootscale ambassador accusing them of infecting the kobolds with their "filthy human diseases."
Meanwhile, a rumor in the PCs kingdom will start: That the disease is caused by kobolds.
I will offer my players a choice: If they go to war against the kobolds, then for each month they spend at war, they can get rid of 2 Unrest resulting from the plague events.
If my players pay attention to their spymaster's report, about six months in, they will learn there have been reports of disease outbreaks in Varnhold as well.
Of course, these plagues are caused by magicked individuals, and the players will be able to piece together a little bit of the puzzle (magic, at least) with a bit of detective work.
How does this lead to mass combat? The PCs will face quite a bit of internal pressure go to war against the Sootscales or even against Varnhold. Even if the PCs don't bow to this pressure, the other kingdoms in the area (Varnhold, Sootscale) will be sorely tempted to attack the players' kingdom. Meanwhile, it's also possible that Varn will press for combat with the Nomen centaurs, and ask the players to send military units to help him against the centaur menace.
This is what I have so far. Any thoughts? I'm hoping to flesh this out more later.
| pennywit |
I've started playing with this a bit, and I'm trying to decide how best to approach it. Do I make Vordakai the only actor? Or should I expand on the notion of Vordakai's champion (statted elsewhere in the KM forum) and give him four champions, one for each of the four horsemen? Since I'm running a mythic game, each of these guys would be a mythic creature, and would serve Vordakai in a grander plot.
The avatars would be formidable by themselves, but their real job is to distract the area's powers -- Varnhold, Sootscale, the Nomen Centaurs, and the PCs' kingdom -- while Vordakai assembles a huge undead army to conquer all of the realms.
This minions. I haven't settled on levels or specific abilities yet, but here is what I'm thinking about:
Myrxip, Avatar of Pestilence. Divine (Mythic) Kobold Zombie Lord Oracle. A former citizen of Sootscale, Myrxip will stir conflict between the PCs' kingdom and the Kobold Kingdom of Sootscale by spreading disease in both kingdoms, including moving Typhoid Mary types between the two realms. Myrxip would have plague zombies at his command as well. I'd likely make him the sneakiest of the four avatars.
Cybele, Avatar of War. Invincible (Mythic) Centaur Grave Knight Ranger. An imposing centaur in dark armor, Cybele drives the Nomen centaurs toward war with Varnhold. Cybele would show up not far into VV, present at battles and generally looking fearsome.
Tyrilkron, Avatar of Famine. Invincible (Mythic) Troll Dread Zombie Barbarian. I'm thinking that this guy would be a veteran of the war with Hargulka's Troll Kingdom. He would command swarms of undead ravens that would directly assault players' lands.
Othantanon, Avatar of Death. Arcane (Mythic) Advanced Tombstone Fairy. I imagine this little guy actually leading a small swarm of tombstone fairies. At this point ... I'm not exactly sure what Othantanon would do, but I think Othantanon would have something to do with the Valley of the Dead.
This is how far I've gotten, and if anybody has any ideas as to how to fit the pieces together, I'm game.
In general, my flow so far is:
1) PCs are called on to help because Varnhold is having issues with Nomen Centaurs attacking the settlement. PCs settle this one way or the other.
2) Stupid Adventurer (forgot his name) stumbles on Vordakai's island and wakes him up.
3) Vordakai empowers the four avatars to set the peoples of Varnhold and the Greenbelt against each other while he gathers his forces.
4) I will keep a 12 or 24-month countdown timer until Vordakai is completely ready to unleash his armies.
Some elements I'm playing with:
Plagues.
Undead hordes.
Varnhold overrun with Redcaps (a species my players have had ... issues ... with) rather than Spriggans.
Vordakai bringing in undead from the Linnorm Graveyard. (I like the image of an army of Linnorm skeletons).
And: Why did Vordakai imprison the souls of Varnhold?
Any thoughts on all this?