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So my PFS VC has made a ruling I'm not entirely sold on. The first almost invalidates an archetype, the second is just really annoying. So, since my VC ruled this I need a FAQ or 2 other VCs to argue this with him. Unless I'm wrong that's OK too.
Hexcrafter - hex arcana does not use my magus level as my witch level, only the hex I get at LVL 4 does.
Arcane deed - does not use magus level as swashbuckler level, for the same reasons as above.
About the arcane deed he seems to be correct, that's ACG editing for you.
About the hexcrafter, technically he is correct but that's really going out of your way to gimp the archetype. I mean that the archetype already states in one class feature that you get magus level equal to witch level for hexes, and then another class feature gives more hexes.
I agree with him on going out of your way to gimp the hexcrafter because i really don't like any hex related class or archetype, but i would tell the player that and ask him not to make a hex related character.
RAI they should probably both use your magus level. The hexcrafter ruling is especially important as it becomes a worthless archetype if your vc is correct.
As for the hexes, If your vc chooses to say you don't use the 4th level ability as the general rule then it seems to me there is a problem. This stems from the fact that the DC for hexes are not defined on the hexes themselves but in the witch class feature called "hex."
The fourth level hexcrafter ability tells you how to calculate DC for the hex you get at lvl 4 because you get it from the witch class feature and it tells you to sub your magus level.
The hex arcana ability (which let's you access other hexes) only references witch hexes and not the witch hex class feature. This means that there is an awkward absence of any reference to a rule for calculating the DC of a supernatural ability that can be taken in place of a magus arcana. As there isnt any reference I would guess you could go with the normal default, which i believe in this case is 10 + int + 1/2 your HD.
I know that sounds a bit odd but if you can't follow what seems to be the fairly obvious RAI solution then you have to draw it out.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rruf?Hexcrafter-Magus-questions
They linked one of the developers arguing that the class feature is intended to work the same on each class that uses it. It is just poor development for such a mistake to exist.
To elaborate. That link is pointing out that when a class is given a feature that is described as having the same function as another (hex for witch or hex magus for hexcrafter), the granted abilities count as the same for the purpose of how they function (DC calculation) and what feats might apply (hex strike for example).
In this case it means that a witch would use 1/2 its level for hexes gained from its class feature, and a magus would use 1/2 its level for hexes gained from the magus feature.
Good find by the way!
The basis assumsion of the rules is that they are made to work. Your VC have made it so hex arcana and arcane deed dosent. The two things must use magus levels(as witch and swasbuckler level)to make sense. IMOP.
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Thanks for linking that Gisher.
What I'm seeing here is that both the hexes and deeds should scale of magus level, even when it says "swashbuckler level" or "witch level" because "hex magus/hex arcana" give me a "curse" (which is a class feature/ability) as a class feature/ability, and "arcane deed" gives me a "deed" as a class feature, and since both class features are given by something in my Magus class they scale off of Magus level.
This interpretation is based on Sean K. Reynold's statement "they should be the same or they should be different." While he was using channel energy as an example, the statement was meant to cover similar ambiguities in the rules. As Sean was a developer his statement will be enough to convince my VC (assuming I'm reading all this right, a few yays or nays wouldn't go unappreciated).
I would say that is exactly right! My only reccomendation is to try to put part of your question in the title for future posts. That usually generates more responses.
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Stuff like this doesn't help convince people to join Society games. It obviously should work off your level. You shouldn't even need a ruling on this, but people can be sticklers for wording.
I'm sorry you have to go through this just to play a game. Hopefully Paizo actually weighs in on this. It wouldn't take them any time at all to clear this up.
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It can be a pain, but once things get worked out it's a lot of fun. I think he's just a stickler when i bring rules in because some of my interpretations of the rules were a little off when i was new to the system (a tiefling holding things in his racial trait tail, shield master removing ALL attack penalties, etc). Could also be that a hexcrafter with slumber, flight, precise strike, dervish dance and 20 DEX might steal the show from time to time and he wants to avoid that.
as for official wording, the closest thing we have is the post by SKR about designing things like this,and that's like 5 years old and might be considered common sense. still, some errata/FAQ would not go unappreciated.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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My VC told me 2 other VCs, a paizo developer or FAQ/errata are the only ways to overrule him.
This concerns me more than the rulings themselves. I didn't think it was within the scope of a VC's power/responsibilities to make area-wide rules adjudications. Rather, rulings on ambiguous rules are to be made by the table GM for that individual game.
The idea of a VC declaring that everyone in the region has to go by his ruling is... troubling.
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It can be a pain, but once things get worked out it's a lot of fun. I think he's just a stickler when i bring rules in because some of my interpretations of the rules were a little off when i was new to the system (a tiefling holding things in his racial trait tail, shield master removing ALL attack penalties, etc). Could also be that a hexcrafter with slumber, flight, precise strike, dervish dance and 20 DEX might steal the show from time to time and he wants to avoid that.
as for official wording, the closest thing we have is the post by SKR about designing things like this,and that's like 5 years old and might be considered common sense. still, some errata/FAQ would not go unappreciated.
That's exactly what the Grasping Tail feat is for. If you have the racial tail trait it upgrades it into a "tail of holding" ;).
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Jiggy, the "region" is mostly the event he puts on every 2 weeks, and the blanket ruling is more so that we can finish before the store it's in closes, it also stops people from having characters they can only play with certain GMs. His organizational/management skills are great,if a little annoying at times.
Claudekennilol, i didn't have the feat, just the Racial. Took me a bit to understand the wording there.