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Inner Sea Gods had a nice little chart of deities and which creatures serve them (if not necessarily exclusively), but I was sort of elaborating on that by thinking about which deities are essentially members of a given outsider race. That is, Erastil and Torag get along with archons, and have archon servants, but they aren't archons themselves.
Asmodeus is the ruler of Hell, and devils all work for him. Even if he isn't a proper Devil himself, being instead a fallen angel or a primordial deity that created the devils, there are several Archdevils that started as non-devils and now have devilish traits. Asmodeus almost certainly has the devil subtype, even if he wasn't 'born' with it.
Gozreh might be an aeon. (S)he is a primal force, and encompasses dualities: Male/female, Sea/Sky, and so on. But this is a stretch.
Lamashtu is a demon. There is no argument on this.
Nethys has to have become an Aeon: the duality thing is perfect, right down to deities being a paradox of immense power and the inability to use it directly. I suspect that Nethys's moment of ascension, when he achieved arcane omnipotence, tapped into the multiverse itself, which the aeons serve directly.
Pharasma can't possibly be anything other than the biggest and greatest of the psychopomp Ushers.
Rovagug is a qlippoth. This went from fan conspiracy theory to canonized. This may have been the truth all along, but James Jacobs has admitted that sometimes when your players come up with an evil plan better that what you have, it's often better to go with their theory as if it was right all along.
Sarenrae has to be an angel. I've debated with people if she's an ascended angel, or the first angel, or creator of the angels. But one way or another, she is an angel.
Zon-Kuthon is a kyton. Maybe Dou-Bral was corrupted by the same force that created the kytons. Maybe Zon-Kuthon created them, or adopted them based on a similar outlook. But like Asmodeus and devils, we can safely assume Zon-Kuthon has the kyton subtype.
Are there any more of these relationships I'm missing?
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Are there any more of these relationships I'm missing?
In the core 20? I don't think so. I guess Abadar might be an Axiomite, but that's hard to prove and maybe stretching the point a bit.
Though as a pedantic note on Zon-Kuthon, James Jacobs has noted that the Kytons predate Dou-Bral becoming him. He'd still clearly have the subtype though.
I could make other mildly pedantic disagreements with details, but I agree with all the creature types and they're all matters of opinion so I'll leave it at that.
I don't think that's right. There have been a lot more hints that Densa is from the Black, not the outer planes.
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I've always considered Desna to be the anthropomorphic personification of the feeling of looking up at the night sky in wonder.
Is zon-kuthon actually a kyton now? He has a lot of kytonesque qualities but they are not normally associated with the deep space stuff.
Pharasma can't possibly be anything other than the biggest and greatest of the psychopomp Ushers.
All just me musing here:
I think this one depends on how old she is. Does she predate mortals? And if so, does that also imply that psychopomps do as well? It's subtle perhaps, but if she predates the mortal cycle or life and death, does that make her different from the psychopomps in some manner if they came about afterwards?
And to add to the list: the Oinodaemon is absolutely a daemon - the first one even. But it may or may not be a deity, less than one, the plane of Abaddon itself, or something else entirely. That's a big, intentionally open question mark. :)
IIRC, it has been stated somewhere (by JJ?) that Dou-Bral underwent the change in the Shadow plane, and not in the darkness/void between the stars. He certainly lives there now (according to ISG).
I might be mixing up my edition cosmologies here, but if the Shadow Plane is the only way to travel between cosmologies/universes, then what possessed Dou-Bral and turned him into Zon-Kuthon could be very alien indeed.
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IIRC, it has been stated somewhere (by JJ?) that Dou-Bral underwent the change in the Shadow plane, and not in the darkness/void between the stars. He certainly lives there now (according to ISG).
I might be mixing up my edition cosmologies here, but if the Shadow Plane is the only way to travel between cosmologies/universes, then what possessed Dou-Bral and turned him into Zon-Kuthon could be very alien indeed.
Kytons also live on the Plane of Shadow. For the record. ;)
Pharasma can't possibly be anything other than the biggest and greatest of the psychopomp Ushers.All just me musing here:
I think this one depends on how old she is. Does she predate mortals? And if so, does that also imply that psychopomps do as well? It's subtle perhaps, but if she predates the mortal cycle or life and death, does that make her different from the psychopomps in some manner if they came about afterwards?
She and they are very closely related. Even if she predates them, they are very closely associated with her and possibly created in her image. Like Asmodeus or Zon-Kuthon, she's effectively 'one of them'.
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Also voting for Desna being more alien than azata. It's a big part of what makes her so neat. :) (Inner Sea Gods even mentions her servitor azatas having traits pointing towards alien origins!)
To add to the Zon-Kuthon/kyton debate, some time back James Jacobs threw out a very interesting tidbit about the true nature of their relationship:
Kytons. And their master/overlord/prisoner Zon-Kuthon.James: When are we gonna see a great Pathfinderized version of Cenobites themed monsters from Hellraiser books?
i saw one of Golarion´s Phanteon looks like one of them, and in ISWG at Nidal entry, theres other one... but, i really love see them Pathfinderized, with mythic and so...
Before he became Zon-Kuthon though, Dou-Bral was a half-wolf just like his sister. ;)
To add to the Zon-Kuthon/kyton debate, some time back James Jacobs threw out a very interesting tidbit about the true nature of their relationship:Kytons. And their master/overlord/prisoner Zon-Kuthon.James: When are we gonna see a great Pathfinderized version of Cenobites themed monsters from Hellraiser books?
i saw one of Golarion´s Phanteon looks like one of them, and in ISWG at Nidal entry, theres other one... but, i really love see them Pathfinderized, with mythic and so...
Before he became Zon-Kuthon though, Dou-Bral was a half-wolf just like his sister. ;)
I imagine pre-transformation Dou-Bral and Shelyn as being something like Apollo and Artemis: Closely related, overlapping gods that are usually worshipped as a pair.
But yeah, I know Zon-Kuthon's relationship to the kytons is a little muddy in whether he's boss or not, or if perhaps the kytons were the thing that captured him and turned him into a monster as he did to his father in turn, or if he was transformed by some other force and the kytons just captured him and stuck in him the basement like the Oinodaemon. But in any of those cases, I still think it's safe to say he has the Kyton subtype now.
I came up with another one, though. Curchanus (and Thron, actually) were probably Agathions. Goodly gods with animal aspects? (Thron was probably merely demigod-level.)