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In my group a Fighter with Archer archetype is trying a tricky move. Help me with all the variants:
He bought a couple of Enlarge Person Potions, some regular Large Arrows and have a Wand of Gravity Bow.
All nice and sweet, Enlarge Person only augment your size one step while you are holding it (specifing arrows go back to normal size right after fired), so I understand the Large Arrows is for when he use the Enlarge Person.
Ok.
But if he holds the large arrows while drinking the potion, they will become Huge, and by my concern he can't use a arrow one category above his own size. Correct?(1)
A interesting and efficient way of not doing this is Preparing the large arrows on the ground (this way) so he won´t waste time getting them. What kind of action is preparing arrows like that? (2)
Quiver (actually Efficient Quiver) could be prepared in the floor for this purpose?(3)
Do Enlarge Person using regular Large Arrows stack with Gravit Bow, making them huge (3d6)? (4)
Sorry for bad grammar... ;)
If he has large arrows, he will need to drop or set them on the ground and then use Enlarge Person. So he will have to use an extra action to pick them up again. Otherwise, yes, they will become huge when he is enlarged and they will not work in his now large bow.
If you use that method and then fire the large arrows, they will act like huge arrows for damage purposes.
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Some rambling thoughts-
Actually, you don't need to drop or set them on the ground BEFORE casting. Instead, you can cast, then put them down or even toss them in the air and catch them (not sure how your GM would adjudicate this). Once they leave your possession, they shrink to normal size!
I assume you could have an efficient quiver built that stands up on its own, or a frame to put it into. You'll have to talk to your GM about cost and whether there are other effects (such as extra weight and bulk for carrying around purposes).
Also, just so you don't get blind-sided, you might want to double-check with your GM on whether he has issues with you putting large arrows into a standard medium-sized efficient quiver. Even if you go with the idea that magic items resize, you are normally medium and the arrows are large... I would normally go with the item re-sizing to the person who carries it. Note Gravity Bow lets the arrows be treated as one size larger for damage purposes, but they aren't really one size larger (so they are still large arrows).
But you can do all this without an efficient quiver, so it's not a big deal one way or the other.
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Capt Zoom, I´m the GM trying to figured how the player's action will take actions in combat. ;)
Large Arrows could fit in Javelin Space, i guess.
My doubts are exactly about the kind of actions to do such things:
1) Full Round to Prepare 20 Arrows/Quiver on the ground, then he won´t take any action when he is attacking in another rounds. Is it fair enough?
I think this is the most efficient way of doing it in combat.
But he will waste a round to prepare arrows, another to drink a potion, and another do use a wand, and only in 4º round will attack... I don´t know if have a good cost/beneficial rate...
The action economy for this trick is pretty poor, as you noted. However, both enlarge person and gravity bow are 1 min/level duration; so, if both the potion and wand are CL 2 versions (costing double the standard CL 1 versions), then the fighter could prepare right before combat is initiated in some instances.
It's not an "every combat" tactic, but can work for tough fight where the PCs can buff before going in.
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Capt Zoom, I´m the GM trying to figured how the player's action will take actions in combat. ;)
Large Arrows could fit in Javelin Space, i guess.
My doubts are exactly about the kind of actions to do such things:
1) Full Round to Prepare 20 Arrows/Quiver on the ground, then he won´t take any action when he is attacking in another rounds. Is it fair enough?
I think this is the most efficient way of doing it in combat.
But he will waste a round to prepare arrows, another to drink a potion, and another do use a wand, and only in 4º round will attack... I don´t know if have a good cost/beneficial rate...
1. Sounds fair, but to expand on that... If he's got a specially built quiver with a broad bottom that stands on it's own (and assuming the ground is relatively flat and level), I might allow a move action to put it on the ground, or two moves (one to take it off and one to put on the ground) if he needs to take it off and put it on the ground. If he's got quickdraw, I'd be inclined to let him take it off as a free action and put it on the ground as a move action.
In terms of the action economy, this whole setup isn't so great. In many combats, it's pretty much over in 3-4 rounds. It works good if he has time to prepare, but given the short duration of the spells, combat needs to start right away once he is prepared.
Archers are pretty deadly as it is, does he really need to do all this to be effective? If he loses just two rounds preparing, that could easily be 6 or more attacks that he could have made. Also, with this set-up, he's anchored to the quiver he put on the ground. I've run archers a few times and I can't say I would even consider the above tactic... just doesn't seem effective in the normal course of combat (it's effective in certain situations, like when you can prepare before combat - ambush?).
Round 1
Free Action to drop quiver to the ground
Move Action to retrieve Potion of Enlarge Person unless you already have it in hand which may be hard with a bow in one hand and dropping the quiver with the other hand
Standard Action to drink the potion and you become large immediately as it is a potion (even though it is normally a 1 round casting time spell)
Round 2
Standard Action to cast Gravity Bow
Move Action to pick up quiver
Round 3
Fire Large Bow with Large Arrows that are treated as Huge Arrows when they strike the target.
It will works but it sure does burn up a lot of rounds.
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Drop the Quiver:
Free Action is the action to drop an item in the hand. Not the case of a quiver.
I guess it is the same action to drop a backpack (which I remember was full round - not found that tho).
Sash Adventure have a emergency button to quickly unload it, and still is a Move Action to do it.
Source Seekers of Secrets
This bandoleer holds six pouches along its length and a satchel at the hip. Each pouch has a stiff leather flap that can be secured against jostling with a clasp (requiring a move action to open or close) or left unfastened for easier access. The pouches and satchel each contain a number of loops and ties for further securing equipment. The sash buckles at the shoulder, and can be freed with a sharp tug in an emergency as a move action.
Let´s say the Efficient Quiver could have this sharp tug, it could unequip with move action, and did it while be ready to use? Or need a move action to access anything on it?
The most efficient way this way is with talent Quick Drawn:
First round:
Drop Quiver as Move Action
Free Action to get a Wand in Wrist Sheath, spring loaded.
Use Wand (Gravity Bow)roling UMD.
Second Round:
Move Action to get the Potion of Enlarge Person
Standard Action to drink the Potion
Third Round:
Quick Draw Quiver in the back
Normal Attack Action.
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Drop the Quiver:
Free Action is the action to drop an item in the hand. Not the case of a quiver.
The game doesn't actually make that distinction.
Drop an item.You can rule it how you will, but the game gives one listing for dropping items, and that's a free action. It makes no distincition about where or how the item is held (other than shields which have their own rules since they're actually an armor piece which is strapped on).
Like Ssalarn said Drop an Item is a Free Action. If you want to justify it, then keep the quiver in your hand and the bow in the other hand.
I believe dropping an item as a free action presumes you are holding the item. It isn't, for example, a free action to drop a suit of armor you are wearing.
So if you were carrying the quiver in your hand you could drop it as a move action, if it was instead affixed to you so as to be ready for use, you would need at least a move (manipulate an item) to get it into hand, then a free to drop it and later a move (pick it up) and another move (manipulate an item) to affix it to your belt/back etc.
Special rules for a free standing quiver could be made, but if the archer needed to maneuver to a different position, that would again eat up combat actions.
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Another interpretation:
From Enlarge Person:
Other magical properties are not affected by this spell.
That mean, in any interpretation possible, the arrows/itens inside Efficient Quiver or Bag of Holding (or any extra-dimensional pockets) are not affected by enlarge person????
I´m trying to help him here people ;)