Ring of Invisibility...


GM Discussion

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Is there a scenario, module, AP for PFS that has a ring of invisibility available for sub tier 7?

Silver Crusade 2/5 * Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood

As long as you have a fame of 36+ you can buy it out right.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

That would take 18 games, hence why he wants to find a pre level 7 chron sheet, so he can get it sooner.

unfortunately chron sheet mining is forbidden

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

FLite wrote:
That would take 18 games, hence why he wants to find a pre level 7 chron sheet, so he can get it sooner.

The OP said 7, not before 7.

5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I hate that NPCs have wealth below PC wealth. Makes it extremely difficult to put cool items on a chronicle before it becomes available with Fame. WE TRY! ;-)

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

Why do NPCs have less than PC wealth? That makes no sense. Since there are fewer of them, they should have MORE gear.

5/5

They usually get 15 point buy and follow the NPC wealth by level chart.

5/5 5/55/55/5

David Bowles wrote:

Why do NPCs have less than PC wealth? That makes no sense. Since there are fewer of them, they should have MORE gear.

To keep you from getting a treasure bath...

Grand Lodge 4/5

David Bowles wrote:

Why do NPCs have less than PC wealth? That makes no sense. Since there are fewer of them, they should have MORE gear.

"Having PC level wealth" is worth +1 CR according to the monster generation rules.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Jiggy wrote:
FLite wrote:
That would take 18 games, hence why he wants to find a pre level 7 chron sheet, so he can get it sooner.
The OP said 7, not before 7.

He said "sub tier 7" so I assumed he meant "below tier 7"

(since if he meant subtier 7, it should have been sub tier 7-8 or 6-7...)

In any case, you could only get it at level 7 if you had got pretty much every single prestige you could possibly get.

Sczarni 5/5 * Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman

Kyle Baird wrote:
I hate that NPCs have wealth below PC wealth. Makes it extremely difficult to put cool items on a chronicle before it becomes available with Fame. WE TRY! ;-)

Moar hardmode!

Grand Lodge 4/5

David Bowles wrote:

Why do NPCs have less than PC wealth? That makes no sense. Since there are fewer of them, they should have MORE gear.

And there are, usually, a lot more of them. Too much NPC wealth would mess with the max gold cap of a scenario, or cause an old LG issue called Overcap gold.

I played at least one game in LG where the overcap gold was enough to pay for a resurrection. Which also meant that the cost for my pc's raise dead in that scenario did not cost anyone anything, since it was fully covered by overcap gold.

Which lead to PCs with significant amounts of gold/items over the Weath by Level expectations. Between overcap, and the XP costs of magic item creation, LG had some serious issues with determining proper challenge levels.

Martial? Died much? Crafted much?

Literally, crafting casters, around 8th or 9th level, especially if they managed to die in scenarios with sufficient overcap gold, could easily have equipment better than a retired 16th level martial.

Literally, a scenario with one of those casters along could be a walkover, yet become a TPK without one.

4/5

NPC's should have more gear and a higher WBL.

This is an organized play campaign and since the magic items found dont directly translate to gold found, it could be done by giving the PC's a GP Treasure amount gained per encounter (which is pretty much done already) in order to keep PC Wealth balance without affecting what the NPC's carry.

The only problem with this is that either the +1 to CR is over-looked or ignored. Not sure which one is better.

3/5

We are meant to be fighting things higher CR than us. Power creep pretty much demands it.

Heck my group played a recent hard mode and killed the thing we were not meant to kill in one round of focused fire.

Bring on the challenges

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I don't know whether NPCs should have more wealth or not, but it does seem that the "whatever they have, the PCs will get" thing that requires NPCs to have lower WBL in an ordinary campaign really doesn't apply in PFS.

The Exchange 5/5

how about if just the NPCs encountered early in the scenario have PC wealth and equipment... that way we can use the stuff thru the rest of the scenario and save ours!

;)

4/5 ****

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I know, we'll take the high AC ranged sorcerer and give her the young template to help balance out the +1 CR from PC wealth...

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

kinevon wrote:
David Bowles wrote:

Why do NPCs have less than PC wealth? That makes no sense. Since there are fewer of them, they should have MORE gear.

And there are, usually, a lot more of them. Too much NPC wealth would mess with the max gold cap of a scenario, or cause an old LG issue called Overcap gold.

I played at least one game in LG where the overcap gold was enough to pay for a resurrection. Which also meant that the cost for my pc's raise dead in that scenario did not cost anyone anything, since it was fully covered by overcap gold.

Which lead to PCs with significant amounts of gold/items over the Weath by Level expectations. Between overcap, and the XP costs of magic item creation, LG had some serious issues with determining proper challenge levels.

Martial? Died much? Crafted much?

Literally, crafting casters, around 8th or 9th level, especially if they managed to die in scenarios with sufficient overcap gold, could easily have equipment better than a retired 16th level martial.

Literally, a scenario with one of those casters along could be a walkover, yet become a TPK without one.

You could hand out the same amount of gold and just have better items on the chronicle sheet. As it stands, I have dozens and dozens of chronicle sheets and the only things I've ever bought off them are the partially charged wands and such. Seems like a waste of ink and paper to continue as it currently exists.

""whatever they have, the PCs will get" thing that requires NPCs to have lower WBL"

Even this would be severely mitigated by the NPCs not having anything actually better than the PCs on average.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
They usually get 15 point buy and follow the NPC wealth by level chart.

C'mon Kyle, you know better! Naked, pre-mage armor and shield buffed Monk/Sorcerers, Monk/Alchemists, and Monk/Magus in all tier 1-5! Brutalize your PCs with crazy AC baddies and take a free action to savor their anguish when they realize there is no loot to be had!

Get your head in the game, man!

;)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Young mummies, man. An orphanage of adolescent entombment.

Oh, young shadows too, several in fact. With adept levels so they can buff. A nightfall of young adept shadows.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Young on anything that uses Weapon Finesse to begin with.

Could someone, anyone explain to me how that reduces their CR?

We won't even go into something with an Agile weapon, or Dervish Dance....

5/5

Well young does reduce size and hit points...

It is a -1 CR for big creatures that rely on strength and size to win.

Grand Lodge

David Bowles wrote:

Why do NPCs have less than PC wealth? That makes no sense. Since there are fewer of them, they should have MORE gear.

Having PC wealth raises an NPC's CR. I've seen that noted on some NPC characters.

NPC's follow the NPC wealth by level table, not the one used for building advanced PC's, unless you're using a specific exception which would raise the NPC's CR by one.

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

In 3.0 and 3.5, I basically completely ignored the CR system. I gave the NPCs what I thought they should have based off the PC wealth table of the day. Probably none of my 3.5 encounters would be PFS legal :\

5/5

Who says we *have* to follow the CR system either? ;-)

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

I suspect the authors are held to it in some way, since all the encounter CRs are listed. I always weighted some abilities far more heavily than others when designing encounters.

5/5

David Bowles wrote:
I suspect the authors are held to it in some way, since all the encounter CRs are listed. I always weighted some abilities far more heavily than others when designing encounters.

It's initially left to our judgement as to what the CR for an encounter should be taking tactics, environment, abilities, etc into account. Sometimes it's as simple as deciding whether a CR 7 and CR 8 creature together are a CR 9 or CR 10 encounter. Ultimately John has the last say, but we're able to voice our opinions one way or another.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

FLite wrote:

That would take 18 games, hence why he wants to find a pre level 7 chron sheet, so he can get it sooner.

unfortunately chron sheet mining is forbidden

Actually, I want the item before I play in Bone Keep with my friends. Having to wait on fame for something that I should be able to make with craft feats (that I'm not allowed to take...) just so it can serve as my arcane bond, seems patently ridiculous to me...

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic

Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
Actually, I want the item before I play in Bone Keep with my friends. Having to wait on fame for something that I should be able to make with craft feats (that I'm not allowed to take...) just so it can serve as my arcane bond, seems patently ridiculous to me...

You need to be 7th level to 'craft' your bonded item to a ring of invis as Forge Ring has a Caster level 7th prerequisite anyway.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Kyle Baird wrote:

Well young does reduce size and hit points...

It is a -1 CR for big creatures that rely on strength and size to win.

Yeah, and I have seldom seen it on creatures it actually would be a -1 CR for. Sure, that creature has less hit points, but its AC just went up by 2 points, its to hit just went up by 2 points, and its poison is very little affected by the template.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Auke Teeninga wrote:
Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
Actually, I want the item before I play in Bone Keep with my friends. Having to wait on fame for something that I should be able to make with craft feats (that I'm not allowed to take...) just so it can serve as my arcane bond, seems patently ridiculous to me...
You need to be 7th level to 'craft' your bonded item to a ring of invis as Forge Ring has a Caster level 7th prerequisite anyway.

I'm aware of this. It's the fame scaling that is the problem here...

Silver Crusade 3/5

Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
Auke Teeninga wrote:
Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
Actually, I want the item before I play in Bone Keep with my friends. Having to wait on fame for something that I should be able to make with craft feats (that I'm not allowed to take...) just so it can serve as my arcane bond, seems patently ridiculous to me...
You need to be 7th level to 'craft' your bonded item to a ring of invis as Forge Ring has a Caster level 7th prerequisite anyway.
I'm aware of this. It's the fame scaling that is the problem here...

But the nice thing is that once you DO have the fame, you can get it at 50% off. :)

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Welcome to Fame WBL balance. My life oracle was sitting on 16K gold at level 5-6 but did not have the fame for the Phylactery of Positive Channeling. Happens when you do Modules mostly (she had done 3 and so was not at max Fame possible).

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

I have literally NEVER had the money for something for which I didn't have the Fame. It's interesting to hear reports of this occurring.

4/5 ****

I frequently want a +1 cloak of resistance before 9 fame. (This one I usually find on one of my chronicle sheets though)

I frequently end up saving 8k before reaching 18 fame and then purchasing +2 mental stat and +2 physical stat item at the same time.

Anybody with an arcane bond may encounter the fame limit as you only pay half but are still required to have the full fame. (My character with an arcane bonded weapon is always waiting for more fame)

Scarab Sages 2/5 *

Pirate Rob wrote:

I frequently want a +1 cloak of resistance before 9 fame. (This one I usually find on one of my chronicle sheets though)

I frequently end up saving 8k before reaching 18 fame and then purchasing +2 mental stat and +2 physical stat item at the same time.

Anybody with an arcane bond may encounter the fame limit as you only pay half but are still required to have the full fame. (My character with an arcane bonded weapon is always waiting for more fame)

I have a plain quarterstaff as my arcane bond, eventually I will cast masterwork transformation on it. Then it will be a plain masterwork quarterstaff, until I have enough fame and money to turn it into a Staff of the Master.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Arcane bonds are always at least masterwork quality (for free!).

The Exchange 5/5

David Bowles wrote:
I have literally NEVER had the money for something for which I didn't have the Fame. It's interesting to hear reports of this occurring.

I often have a shortage of fame.

Sleeves of Many Garmets
Cracked Ioun Stones
Hybredization Funnel
Hat of Disguise
Cat Boots
Aegis of Recovery
Muleback Cords
Elixers (several different ones)

so many other things.... all have at one time or another been a problem. I think all of my PCs have faced this issue early in life...

But then I don't often buy +1 weapons or armor until later... and those are open access, so if we are spending our first thousand or two GPs on those... then we would be less likely to have the problem pop up. I guess it could be just a reflection of play styles... what magic item is most important to you?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I've always had money trouble.

Beginning to see some light the end of the tunnel though. 5th season seems to have done away with needing a multitude of consumables. I had a character die recently, lose half the loot, then play two season zero scenarios back to back. Penniless? Not after three season 5 sessions.

I'm liking this. In comparison, my Seeker, whom I started to play in 2008, has just bought a +4 cloak. Those were some though times.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

FLite wrote:

That would take 18 games, hence why he wants to find a pre level 7 chron sheet, so he can get it sooner.

unfortunately chron sheet mining is forbidden

It is? I've never known that, then again I don't hunt for items on chronicle sheets either.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Well, strongly discouraged at least.

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