Hello, I did a quick search of the forum and found no threads comparing the pros and cons of both of these feats when it comes to sneak attacks.
On one hand Shatter Defenses, the good thing about it is I don't have to use a full attack to get its affect, I could simply use Dazzling Display or a normal demoralize check, but I've noticed that enemies become exceedingly difficult to demoralize and some gain fear immunity outright(Is afflicting an enemy with shaken through demoralize affected by immunity to fear effects?)
Improved TW Feint, I have yet to see anything that was immune to feinting, the problem with this is that I have to be next to the opponent or only 5 feet away to use a full attack and get this(And then there is also the fact that I have to sacrifice one of my attacks to use it).
Finally I could get both, but of course its going to take some intensive feat taxes. I am not going for pure optimization here, and both fit the flavor of the character I am playing.
This is what I had in mind as a feat build if I took both:
1-Combat Expertise
2-Improved Disarm (I know not that good of a maneuver and very questionable on a rogue, purely flavor)
3-Persuasive (Using lots of Diplomacy outside of combat, and not to mention boosting intimidate)
4-TWF
5-Improved TWF
6-Greater Disarm (Might as well go the whole way eh?)
7-Dazzling Display (Weapon Focus through rogue talents)
8-Shatter Defenses
9-Two Weapon Feint
10-Imp Two Weapon Feint
Human extra feat-Skill Focus(Bluff) (Why bother with feinting without this)
Combat Feat rogue talent-Greater TWF
feat rogue talent-Combat Reflexes
Oh and he's a rogue with no archetype.
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Replace Greater Disarm with Catch-Off Guard. Check out the feat text
You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are flat-footed against any attacks you make with an improvised melee weapon.
Flat-footed=Sneak Attack. Nice way to get it, just carry around a couple of chair legs to beat people to death with.
Also take the Focused Study alternate racial trait for humans that lets you get Skill Focus 3 times, once at 1st, 8th, and 12th IIRC. Skill Focus in Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate for what you seem to be going for.
Generally speaking, more creatures can be feinted than demoralized. The shaken condition is a fear condition, so many creatures get immunity to it. Feint is better in those situations.
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting is seldom going to be worth it for you; the penalty on attack rolls is too large and as a rogue, you don't have a reliable bonus to-hit like most other medium BAB characters do (i.e. alchemist's mutagen, bard's inspire courage, inquisitor's judgment, magus's arcane accuracy). I would even go as far to hesitate taking Improved Two-Wepaon Fighting on a rogue. Having tons of potential sneak attacks is nice, but the true trap of the TWF fighting build is that most those iterative attacks you're slinging at opponents will only hit on a natural 20. All of those feats for a 5% chance at an extra attack isn't worth it in my opinion.
@Kazaan: But they both give sneak attacks, so their both beneficial.
@EvilPaladin: Wish I took it at when I created the character, we already started the campaign and we are already at level 2. I'll give Catch-off Guard some thought.
@Alexander: Thanks for answering my inquiry about fear effects, and I see your point in regards to Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, I think I'll replace it for something else, any suggestions?
Also, improved TWF requires 17 Dex, and I assume you're going for a strength-based rogue as there's no Weapon Finesse listed.
If you really want to disarm it may be worth considering the Weapon Snatcher advanced talent in place of Improved Diarm/Greater Disarm. You can then cheaply pick up Gloves of Larceny (2500GP) for a +5 bonus to your check and only one feat/talent invested.
Sorry I should have mentioned I am picking up Weapon Finesse through Rogue Talents.
These are the Ability Scores:
STR 14
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 13
CHA 12
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Also, improved TWF requires 17 Dex, and I assume you're going for a strength-based rogue as there's no Weapon Finesse listed.
If you really want to disarm it may be worth considering the Weapon Snatcher advanced talent in place of Improved Diarm/Greater Disarm. You can then cheaply pick up Gloves of Larceny (2500GP) for a +5 bonus to your check and only one feat/talent invested.
Actually, I'd take Improved Disarm and Skill Focus[Slight of Hand] with the Weapon Snatcher Advanced Talent, since it provides a much better bonus to "CMB".
Yeah I think I'll go with the Weapon Snatcher combo and drop Greater Disarm, that way I'll actually be able to land it. Now I am seriously regretting not getting Focused Study.
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Yeah I think I'll go with the Weapon Snatcher combo and drop Greater Disarm, that way I'll actually be able to land it. Now I am seriously regretting not getting Focused Study.Ask your GM about Retraining. You will spend 200xlevel to gain 2 extra feats. It seems like a pretty good deal to me, since cash is probably one of the most abundant resources in the game. Or your GM might be nice and let you swap it out for free, since it won't come in 'till 8 anyway. You can do that with archetypes.
Note that you don't have to use the retraining rules to take an archetype if your class level is low enough that the archetype doesn't modify any of your current class abilities. For example, if you're a 1st-level fighter who wants the archer archetype, that archetype doesn't replace any class abilities until fighter level 2, so you don't need to use the retraining rules at all—once you reach 2nd level, you can just decide to take the archer archetype.
And I know quite a few GMs [including myself] who would allow it.
Wolfgang Rolf, you may want to peruse the "Ladies and Gentlemen, Let's make the Rogue work" thread. It has a number of builds for both Improved Two-Weapon Feint and Initimidate and there is a fair amount of discussion of their relative merits, IIRC.