Consider a class in the abstract-- 6th level progression like the Summoner/Bard/Magus, other abilities appropriate to its theme.
Now what if this class had three spell casting options--
A. Casts spells on wisdom; all known, spells are divine spells, no spell failure, must prepare spells
B. Casts spells on intelligence; spell book so all can be known once learned, spells are arcane spells, no spell failure in light armor
C. Casts spells on charisma; limited spells known (bard chard), spells are arcane spells
B and C can invest some of their "arcana" (like the magus ability, but themed for the class) into higher level of armor without spell failure. All other abilities for the three options are identical.
Which option is most compelling?
Which would you choose?
Do any of the options seem so much better than the others that no one would ever choose the others?
Do any of the options seem so weak that that single option is severely underpowered?
TL:DR 6th level spells, can cast Wisdom like a cleric, Int w/ spellbook like a wizard, or Cha with spells known like a sorcerer and everything else is equal, which do you choose?
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I prefer C because I'm not a fan of prepared casting.
My actual preference overall would be D - using a power point system like the Psionics stuff from Dreamscarred Press. But barring that, yeah C is my preference.
Yes, B and C both start with light armor and can use arcana to get higher. A starts with light armor proficiency and no spell failure (since it is divine).
I worry because A gets all the spells, while B has to do the spellbook thing, and C has very limited spells and I don't know if B getting Int to cast off makes up for having to use a spellbook, and if casting spontaneously alone is enough to make up for limited spells known (without the extra spells/level that sorc gets)
All else being equal, A is probably the strongest choice (access to every spell, no spellbook to lose). Casting off Int isn't as powerful as casting off Wis since everyone wants a higher Will save.
All else being equal, A is probably the strongest choice (access to every spell, no spellbook to lose). Casting off Int isn't as powerful as casting off Wis since everyone wants a higher Will save.
Agreed.
How much more would the other two options need to balance them up do you feel?
If I give Options B and C the feat that is +2 will save as a bonus is it enough?
How far behind do they seem>?
For option B, I'd say it's not enough. A Wis-based caster will have at least a +4 or more advantage in saving throws over an Intelligence-based one. The intelligence-based one will similarly have four more skill points per level, which our experience with the Rogue suggests is not very useful.
For option C, I'd also say it's not enough. Assuming that Sorcerers are balanced against Wizards and Oracles against Clerics (there are enough debates about superiority that I'm willing to grant effective equality), then if it's not enough for B, it's not enough for C, either.
Think of it this way. Think of a cleric-analogue, call it a cirelc, that is like a cleric in all respects except a cirelc is expected to spend 20% of its wealth by level to enable it to cast additional spells, and its spell list can be reduced to zero by the GM's whim.
Why would anyone in their right mind play such a character over a vanilla cleric?
Well, my original concept was for the extra 4 skill points
Give them a "prayer book" and make them find their prayers (spells) like everyone else is a start in the right direction. They're learning the higher mysteries of their faith, after all.
I did this ages ago in my home setting with no adverse effects. Int and Wis are prepared, Cha is spontaneous.
My opinion, of course.
Oh, and I agree with Orfamay, again.
Well, my original concept was for the extra 4 skill points
Above about fifth level, skills become largely useless. Who needs Climb skill when you can fly? Why invest in Disable Device when you have knock? Diplomacy pales against charm and suggestion spells.
Look at any of the "Rouges are the suxxors" threads to see this point discussed in detail.
Well, this is for a focused limited caster who won't have many of the Wizards spell selection; focused primarily on one school of magic with minor selection to three others, none of which are transmutation or evocation.
I prefer C because I'm not a fan of prepared casting.
My actual preference overall would be D - using a power point system like the Psionics stuff from Dreamscarred Press. But barring that, yeah C is my preference.
What he said.
(Though I'd rather it cast on INT.)
I prefer C because I'm not a fan of prepared casting.
My actual preference overall would be D - using a power point system like the Psionics stuff from Dreamscarred Press. But barring that, yeah C is my preference.
What he said.
(Though I'd rather it cast on INT.)
As long as it's spont or effectively spont (via a PP system), I don't care what stat it goes off of.
Or better yet, let the player choose at the start of the game.