I've been working on a new setting for my players of late (they've been playing in my current setting for over a decade now); this setting is quite different than my previous and contains human only races (with 1 or 2 very minor, very human-looking exceptions), restricted magic (bloodline/hereditary lines with each line able to use specific sets of magic), removed or restricted classes to fit the flavor, so on and so forth. They seem to be pretty excited about the ideas I've thrown at them, which is all good.
One of my players, however, brought up the topic of movement speed as a stat and all of them agreed they'd like to see it implemented in some form or fashion. I inquired further about the topic and several other RPG systems were listed as an example, so I set about trying to figure out how to implement it. The following rules are what I have:
General Rules
1. The roll is optional. A player may choose, before rolling, to select the average speed of 30 ft. for humans.
2. A player rolls 3d6: the result is their Speed attribute. Average result is 10.5 which grants no modifier – I'm comfortable with that.
3. A player may spend the human ability modifier on the stat, as well as any ability bonuses gained through leveling up or other means.
4. A limitation is placed on speed bonuses; a benefit is granted to speed penalties (see Benefits and Limitations).
5. Speed gains will be in the form of half of a 5' square (2.5). Every 2 increments will grant a bonus (or penalty) of 5' to movement.
Speed Attribute Formula (Attribute Range 1-45+)
(Speed Ability Score - 11) / 2 = Result (drop decimal)
Result * 2.5 = Modifier to Base Movement Speed.
The table ends up looking like this:
1 ............... -10 ft
2-3 ............... -10 ft
4-5 ............... -5 ft
6-7 ............... -5 ft
8-9 ............... -
10-11 ............... -
12-13 ............... -
14-15 .......... +5 ft
16-17 .......... +5 ft
18-19 .......... +10 ft
20-21 .......... +10 ft
22-23 .......... +15 ft
24-25 .......... +15 ft
26-27 .......... +20 ft
28-29 .......... +20 ft
30–31 .......... +25 ft
32–33 .......... +25 ft
34–35 .......... +30 ft
36–37 .......... +30 ft
38–39 .......... +35 ft
40–41 .......... +35 ft
42–43 .......... +40 ft
44–45 .......... +40 ft
Benefits and Limitations
1. A bonus to base movement speed applies only when you are wearing no armor or light armor and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying your speed for any load carried. If a feature of your character class also improves your land speed, the speed increase stacks with that provided by the class feature.
2. If your character has a penalty to base movement speed, your speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
Any thoughts, comments, critiques on implementation?
I love this, and would like to steal it.
The only tweak I'd make is that it seems imbalanced not to allow folks in heavy/medium armor to take advantage. In fact, giving a speed boost to light- and unarmored folks who already have speed boost options seems to just widen the gap.
Having (IRL) worn 65 lbs of armor and outrun people in 15 lbs of gear, I call shenanigans.
Move where the modifiers occur, so that 12-13 gives +5 and 8-9 gives -5. Basically, use the existing ability scores modifier chart and use this formula:
Base Movement = Racial Speed x (Speed modifier x 5)
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Thanks for the replies!
I love this, and would like to steal it.
The only tweak I'd make is that it seems imbalanced not to allow folks in heavy/medium armor to take advantage. In fact, giving a speed boost to light- and unarmored folks who already have speed boost options seems to just widen the gap.
Having (IRL) worn 65 lbs of armor and outrun people in 15 lbs of gear, I call shenanigans.
Valid point. Worst case scenario, it removes armor movement speed penalties, which I'm not opposed to in the first place. Thanks!
Move where the modifiers occur, so that 12-13 gives +5 and 8-9 gives -5. Basically, use the existing ability scores modifier chart and use this formula:
Base Movement = Racial Speed x (Speed modifier x 5)
If I understand you correctly, in essence you're saying: +1 = +5 ft bonus speed, +2.5 per +1 thereafter (round down)?
If I did get what you're saying, the revised chart would look like this, which I'm also good with:
Speed ..... Modifier ..... Bonus Speed
1 …......... -5 ..... -15 ft
2-3 …...... -4 ..... -10 ft
4-5 .......... -3 ..... -10 ft
6-7 …...... -2 ..... -5 ft
8-9 .......... -1 ..... -5 ft
10-11 ...... +0 ..... -
12-13 ...... +1 ..... +5 ft
14-15 ...... +2 ..... +5 ft
16-17 ...... +3 ..... +10 ft
18-19 ...... +4 ..... +10 ft
20-21 ...... +5 ..... +15 ft
22-23 ...... +6 ..... +15 ft
24-25 ...... +7 ..... +20 ft
26-27 …... +8 ..... +20 ft
28-29 ...... +9 ..... +25 ft
30–31 ..... +10 ..... +25 ft
32–33 ..... +11 ..... +30 ft
34–35 ..... +12 ..... +30 ft
36–37 ..... +13 ..... +35 ft
38–39 ..... +14 ..... +35 ft
40–41 ..... +15 ..... +40 ft
42–43 ..... +16 ..... +40 ft
44–45 ..... +17 ..... +45 ft
Revised Benefits and Limitations
1. A bonus to base movement speed applies only when you are not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying your speed for any load carried. If a feature of your character class also improves your land speed, the speed increase stacks with that provided by the class feature.
2. If your character has a penalty to base movement speed, your speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
You misunderstood me. My suggestion is identical to rainsax's, but his might be worded better.
or, you could call the new ability score a speed bonus, at a simple 5:1 ratio, but enforce minimums/maximums of half/double the creature's base speed (by race).
humans (base 30) would have a 15 foot minimum (at score 1-5), 60 foot maximum (at score 22+).
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You misunderstood me. My suggestion is identical to rainsax's, but his might be worded better.
Okay, I see exactly what you meant now Ciaran Barnes. Thanks for clearing that up guys. I apparently rolled a Nat 1 on my Int check.
In essence, the formula becomes:
5 x Speed modifier = Speed Bonus
Speed Bonus Minimum = Base Racial Speed * 0.5
Speed Bonus Maximum = Base Racial Speed * 2
A standard human (and other races with a speed of 30) would have a 15 minimum speed and a 60 maximum speed A standard dwarf (and other races with a speed of 20) would have a 10 minimum speed and a 40 maximum speed, etc.
The speed progression is exactly twice that of my original calculation. You guys don't think that will be too much?
I certainly look forward to seeing how this plays out in actual combat. I've always hated the chase rules, for example, and variable speed will actually make many chases make a good bit more sense, but without extra complications.
I wouldn't put mins and maxes on it, except to say that a base speed can't go under 5 ft (maybe, maybe not). I would also rewrite Fast Movement class features and magic items like Boots of Striding and Springing, Boots of Speed, Armor of Haste, etc. and spells like Haste, to make them function with the new ability score. You would drop feats like Fleet. There would be a lot of rewriting to keep someone from going overboard. The easy option would be to 1) leave the base movement system as it is or 2) subtract 10 from every creature's base movement and add their speed ability score. You would have to figure out how rounding would work.
Huh. I think I rolled a critical fumble on understanding this thread. I love the idea, but I don't get what you guys are talking about with all the speed modifiers, speed bonuses, base speeds.
Can someone clarify?
Is there a base speed for all PC's - humans are 30', dwarves are 20' etc etc?
Do you have a Speed Stat? And the modifier provides a bonus in feet to your base movement?
@Da'ath - your new campaign sounds like my dream setting. Mostly human, restricted magic. :)
I wouldn't put mins and maxes on it, except to say that a base speed can't go under 5 ft (maybe, maybe not). I would also rewrite Fast Movement class features and magic items like Boots of Striding and Springing, Boots of Speed, Armor of Haste, etc. and spells like Haste, to make them function with the new ability score. You would drop feats like Fleet. There would be a lot of rewriting to keep someone from going overboard. The easy option would be to 1) leave the base movement system as it is or 2) subtract 10 from every creature's base movement and add their speed ability score. You would have to figure out how rounding would work.
I may go ahead and do up rules for use in a standard Pathfinder game, as you suggest. I think, with some of the items in question, such as spells, one could have it add an appropriate +X modifier.
Examples:
Barbarian
Fast Movement (Ex) A barbarian's land speed is faster than the norm for her race, granting her a +4 bonus to her Speed Score. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor, and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the barbarian's speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the barbarian's land speed.
Boots of Striding and Springing
These boots grant the wearer a +4 bonus to their Speed Score. In addition to this striding ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +5 competence bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Haste
All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase, granting a +6 bonus to the hasted creature's Speed score, to a maximum of twice the subject's normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus, and it affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for increased speed. Multiple haste effects don't stack. Haste dispels and counters slow.
Huh. I think I rolled a critical fumble on understanding this thread. I love the idea, but I don't get what you guys are talking about with all the speed modifiers, speed bonuses, base speeds.
Can someone clarify?
Is there a base speed for all PC's - humans are 30', dwarves are 20' etc etc?
Do you have a Speed Stat? And the modifier provides a bonus in feet to your base movement?
Sorry! I'll try to put it in a google.doc and clarify it soonish.
Normally, you have 6 abilities (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha). One of my players wanted to try out a 7th in the form of a Speed score (from his experience with other RPG systems like Rifts, etc).Speed is rolled using 3d6 (didn't use 4d6, drop the lowest because this is about Risk vs Reward for the time being). Your score grants a modifier just like any other ability. A 13 Dex would grant a +1 modifier and a 13 Speed would grant a +1 modifier. Every +1 from speed translates to +5 ft movement. Base speed is the race's standard speed: Humans 30ft, Elves 30 ft, Dwarves 20ft, etc.
A human or elf with a 13 speed would have a movement of 35 ft, while a dwarf would have a 25 ft speed.
A human or elf with a 7 Speed would have a 20 ft movement, while a dward might have a 10 ft.
Ability score bonuses (such as the human +2 to any ability) could be added. So the same human could, if he chose, increase his speed from 13 to 15, for example, which would grant him a new movement rate of 40 ft.
@Da'ath - your new campaign sounds like my dream setting. Mostly human, restricted magic. :)
I'm really hoping my players see it that way, too. It's definitely looking to be something I'd want to play in.
While I'm using the 3.x-Pathfinder systems, I'm redesigning the classes from the ground up to fit a certain archetypal mold I'm going for and trashing massive quantities of spells.
A lot of the following is still being roughed out. Archetype is not meant to be used in the same fashion as Paizo uses it. I haven't decided whether to go with that style of customization or talent trees or what yet.
Class Archetypes
Warrior Professional soldier (cavalier, crusaders/holy warriors, mercenaries, etc), barbarian (northmen, horse lords)
Scout Rogues/highwaymen, pirates, rangers/wardens, bounty hunters, inquisitors, spies, assassins, etc.
Courtier Nobles, alchemists/doctors, bards (non-magical), etc.
Sorcerer Witches, healers,etc.
With the spellcasters, they're going to be narrowly focused in terms of spell lists and schools, with reduced spellcasting per day. I'm actually torn on what system to use, as well. I've been learning toward three in particular: Conan d20 sorcery styles, full on theft of the 7th Seas version, and lastly, class features which draw on a particular theme (example, my old Binder class which drew the vestiges of the dead from corpses, but remove the spells and add class features for offensive and defensive purposes)
For the Haste spell, a +6 to Speed would grant +15 ft to movement. You would need a +12 to Speed to grant Haste's normal +30 ft to movement.
I assume Initiative would be determined by "Speed" instead of Dexterity?
I assume Initiative would be determined by "Speed" instead of Dexterity?
I could see still using Dexterity for alacrity/reactions and thus Initiative and Speed for straight movement, but there is a good point here - would Speed affect any skills - Climb or Acrobatics/Athletics for example? Would this necessitate the creation of any new skills? Obviously there would be feats....
As is, the only skill affected by movement speed is Acrobatics (Jumping).
For the Haste spell, a +6 to Speed would grant +15 ft to movement. You would need a +12 to Speed to grant Haste's normal +30 ft to movement.
Thanks for the catch. I'm missing a lot of things like that in this thread.
I assume Initiative would be determined by "Speed" instead of Dexterity?
I could see still using Dexterity for alacrity/reactions and thus Initiative and Speed for straight movement, but there is a good point here - would Speed affect any skills - Climb or Acrobatics/Athletics for example? Would this necessitate the creation of any new skills? Obviously there would be feats....
I can see a lot of arguments for and against it applying to Initiative - heck, I've even had a plausible argument for Wisdom as the Initiative modifier from one of my players (Intuition).
I could see it affecting all movement modes, and as you two mention, Jumping. It will certainly remove the need for abstract chase rules (which my group hates anyway - as do I). Outside of that, I'm not really seeing anything.