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The Suicide Demon has:
"Gaze of Despair (Su)
A seraptis’s gaze fills the minds of those within 30 feet with overwhelming and soul-crushing despair. Anyone who fails a DC 22 Will save upon being exposed to a seraptis’s gaze immediately takes 1d6 points of Charisma drain and is staggered for 1d6 rounds. If the Charisma drain would normally reduce a creature’s Charisma to 0, that creature instead succumbs to overwhelming suicidal urges and attempts to end its life by the most convenient method at hand, subject to GM discretion. (In most cases, this effect causes a creature to make a coup de grace attempt on itself, but if a more dramatic method of self-destruction is available, the creature takes that action.) Once a creature reaches this suicidal state of despair, it remains in that state until its Charisma score is restored to its normal maximum—if methods of restoring lost Charisma are not available, the suicidal victim must be restrained at all times to prevent attempts to kill itself. This is a mind-affecting effect. The save DC is Charisma-based."
I do not think casting FOM will remove the staggered condition of this ability.
The staggered condition actually doesn't impede movement, because it does still allow movement!
"Staggered
A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take free, swift, and immediate actions. A creature with nonlethal damage exactly equal to its current hit points gains the staggered condition."
Am I correct?
Otherwise, wouldn't a character that had broken legs...i.e. unable to move, now be able to move about normally?
How about it a wizard was completely tied up except for his hands...if he were tied up with rope and iron chains and such but could cast FOM on him successfully.
I would say he could NOT simply get out of the bonds. He of course could always make the regular escape or strength checks, but I do not think the spell is meant to give a free pass out of mantacles, etc.
What about the exhausted condition? If a character just got that condition as a result of simply over exerting himself...does FOM remove the movement penalty from this?
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That's what I tend to think, but players are saying the spell :
"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web."[/b]
So it would appear the language is very vague. Even if the effect is mental, FOM may negate it?
I think that the staggered condition does impede movement. Normally a PC can take two move actions and move a greater distance than when taking only one move action. The staggered condition from this SU attack also restricts the PC to only one attack.
Freedom of Movement spell grants the ability to move and attack normally. In this case, I believe this magical spell will suppress the staggered condition for the duration of the spell and allow the PC to take two move actions and attack normally, i.e. take all normally allotted attacks.
From http://www.merriam-webster.com:
im·pede transitive verb \im-ˈpēd\
: to slow the movement, progress, or action of (someone or something)
Staggered makes it so that the PC can take one move action OR one attack.
I conclude that staggered does slow the movement, progress, AND action of someone as it does not allow two move actions (slowing the movement of) nor does it allow more than one attack (slowing the action of).
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RAW, which I do not think should be the case says :
enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell,.
Therefore, RAW, *anything* that hinders, impedes, etc. "normal" (how to define normal?!) are negated. Thus, the following, per RAW (which I've stated I do not believe is the intention of the 4th level spell), the spell negates things, no matter the source of the effect, such as:
Being buried in any substance
Moving with catastrophic broken legs, etc.
Armor penalty reductions
Any environmental effect that could hinder movement like wind, water, rough terrain (does this then include solid stone for those without burrowing?)
Squeezed penalty
Negate all conditions which impose any sort of attack or movement impediment such as daze or staggered or prone
Spells like Power Word Stun or other mental effects
What about a creature that is in your way???
Condition modifiers to attack and movement like prone.
Any effect that would cause the loss of even one attack in a full round action.
A zombie who has a natural condition of staggered…
Per RAW, *anything* which renders a character unable to move or attack IN ANY way would be negated by FOM.
That's why I believe the intention of the spell is not RAW, but more intended for things that impose attack or movement reduction DIRECTLY, not indirectly.
Therefore, if we read FOM as RAW we need to read Staggered per RAW as well, and Staggered DOES NOT PER RAW limit normal movement, it only limits actions; it can certainly be argued that a double-move is not normal movement and thus it does not impede normal movement and FOM wouldn't do anything for staggered per RAW- hence the importance of clarifying what the spells can and cannot do with all situations and making sure RAW is being adhered to in both instances.
But Freedom of Movement is an abjuration, which means it's a mind effecting spell. So your mind would then be effected to go ahead and move normally and attack normally, as in double move and take all attacks available to the PC if the staggered condition were not on the PC.
Your players are trying to play you instead of the game:) There are things that effect your mind, and things that effect your mobility directly. FoM works on the latter.
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail
The argument that gives freedom of movement any wiggle room against only being useful versus physical barriers is the immunity to paralysis. This means while under FoM, Hold person and other mental effects that paralyze do no work. Now I am not arguing for the absurdity of the immunity to gravity and such, but clearly magical effects that hold are rendered null.
You know, at first, I thought, "this is ridiculous, your players are trying to abuse the system."
I went ahead and read the whole spell to see if something was missed and here you go.
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
Daze and Staggered are as much a debilitation to your movement as paralysis, on an even lower scale actually. I guess a case truly can be made here. Good find!
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I'm not sure FOM cares whether the limitation on actions, attacks, movement, etc. are mental or physical. But that's not the point and doesn't change the issue at hand.
I think FOM means DIRECT movement or attack limitations, not indirect. Using this key phrase would make sense to me and to the list, above, because there is a plethora of indirect limitations on attack and movement that occur to a character or monster.
You are correct, my mistake, not all abjurations are mind effecting.. I did post incorrectly. What I was trying to say is that Freedom of Movement is a mind affecting spell. So if an effect that causes the staggered condition is mind effecting, it would seem plausible that another mind effecting spell could reverse or negate, even if temporarily in this case, the effect causing the staggered condition.
I'm not being obtuse, I'm reading a spell description that looks as thought it will mitigate the staggered condition's effects of no double move and only having one standard action (one attack).
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You know, at first, I thought, "this is ridiculous, your players are trying to abuse the system."
I went ahead and read the whole spell to see if something was missed and here you go.
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.Daze and Staggered are as much a debilitation to your movement as paralysis, on an even lower scale actually. I guess a case truly can be made here. Good find!
However, Staggered doesn't impose penalty to movement, RAW it says nothing about it. As Staggered, no movement his hindered. A character can move his full speed if they want.
However, Staggered doesn't impose penalty to movement, RAW it says nothing about it. As Staggered, no movement his hindered. A character can move his full speed if they want.You know, at first, I thought, "this is ridiculous, your players are trying to abuse the system."
I went ahead and read the whole spell to see if something was missed and here you go.
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.Daze and Staggered are as much a debilitation to your movement as paralysis, on an even lower scale actually. I guess a case truly can be made here. Good find!
Good point. I can see it removing some effects that I hadn't thought of, but you're right, staggered doesn't actually impede your movement.
Paralysis specifically says you cannot move.
However, Staggered doesn't impose penalty to movement, RAW it says nothing about it. As Staggered, no movement his hindered. A character can move his full speed if they want.You know, at first, I thought, "this is ridiculous, your players are trying to abuse the system."
I went ahead and read the whole spell to see if something was missed and here you go.
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.Daze and Staggered are as much a debilitation to your movement as paralysis, on an even lower scale actually. I guess a case truly can be made here. Good find!
Yes, it does. There is no way to say that it doesn't, since FoM specifically counteracts slow. What does slow do? This:
Creatures affected by this spell are staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions).
Slow makes you staggered. Slow impedes your movement. FoM specifically makes you immune to slow because it impedes your movement. Staggered impedes your movement. FoM makes you immune to staggered.
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However, Staggered doesn't impose penalty to movement, RAW it says nothing about it. As Staggered, no movement his hindered. A character can move his full speed if they want.You know, at first, I thought, "this is ridiculous, your players are trying to abuse the system."
I went ahead and read the whole spell to see if something was missed and here you go.
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.Daze and Staggered are as much a debilitation to your movement as paralysis, on an even lower scale actually. I guess a case truly can be made here. Good find!Yes, it does. There is no way to say that it doesn't, since FoM specifically counteracts slow. What does slow do? This:
Creatures affected by this spell are staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions).Slow makes you staggered. Slow impedes your movement. FoM specifically makes you immune to slow because it impedes your movement. Staggered impedes your movement. FoM makes you immune to staggered.
Ipslore, some cold hard facts are necessary here:
Slow-
An affected creature moves and attacks at a drastically slowed rate. Creatures affected by this spell are staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions). Additionally, it takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.
Slow specifically reduces SPEED with this sentence: "A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed..."
Hence the reason FOM is usually good for defense vs. this spell, along with Hold spells...which specifically state the victim gains the paralyzed condition...which in turn FOM specifically provides for in the text.
The staggered condition does not REDUCE SPEED. You still have your normal speed.
FOM does not say anything about immunity to staggered condition.
So if you are arguing that anything which "impedes" movement is negated by FOM, then literally anything which impedes movement is negated by FOM! Thus, all the above events I mentioned are negated by FOM. Think about that. I'm pretty sure that's not what the spell in intended for, and that is is intended for effects that REDUCE SPEED (Speed being the actual modified base speed listed under race and modified for weight, etc.). Also, intended for the actual listed items in the spell.
Otherwise, going by your idea, a humanoid with both legs broken has the ability to move at his normal speed because his broken legs are reducing his SPEED.
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I also just thought of this one: what if someone is charmed?!
If someone fell under the spell Command, this technically removes their "movement" and gives it to another... hence the slippery slope of a broad, RAW interpretation.
Does anyone happen to know what the 1st and/or 2nd edition ADnD described the spell as?
I'm having trouble even finding a spell called FOM in those editions, yet I remember a spell doing this similar thing.