Gunslingers and Called Shots

[Optimistic Cynic]

A question was recently raised in our game group, the answer to which might affect the feat tree at least one of the players will start to follow.

Our current game allows for Firearms, and we are allowing Called Shots from Ultimate Combat.

The question is, can a person using a firearm use the Called Shot rules? It has been argued that firearms can indeed be used to make Called Shots due to that while firearms use touch AC, they are not actually considered Touch Attacks. The counter-arguement is that Called Shots are not intended for touch AC to be used, if RAI.

Thoughts?

[Nefreet]

Gunslingers already have a Deed for targeting. I believe they get it at 7th level.

[Optimistic Cynic]

Nefreet wrote:

Gunslingers already have a Deed for targeting. I believe they get it at 7th level.

You are talking about the Targeting Deed? That is indeed a version of a called shot, but I am wondering about the optional ruleset labeled Called Shot in Ultimate Combat.

In that ruleset you can make one of several types of called shots for some very nice effects. But the description mostly states that ranged touch and touch attacks do not work. It uses some odd language here...
quote...
Touch attacks and ranged touch attacks made as called shots must target AC rather than touch AC. This represents the care it takes to target such strikes

The question is, does the wording for firearms get past that limitation by using touch AC but not being a 'ranged touch' attack?

Honestly, I should have labeled this thread Firearms and Called Shots, rather than specifying Gunslingers....

[blahpers]

Yes, you can make a called shot with a firearm, but it targets regular AC.

Edit: an argument can be made since firearms are explicitly not considered touch attacks for the purposes of feats and abilities. So I don't really have an answer for this one.

The targeting deed is a different mechanic altogether.

[Nefreet]

Early Firearms wrote:

Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target’s touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.

If you're taking the various Called Shot feats offered in Ultimate Combat then you can target touch AC with your firearm, Gunslinger or not.

EDIT: Ninja'd by blahpers' edit.

[Optimistic Cynic]

link to the Called Shots optional ruleset

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/calledShots.html

What was quoted by Nefreet might be something to take into consideration. If a firearm's attack is 'not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities', that sort of suggests that outside of those two cases, it is indeed a ranged touch attack (within the first range increment). And if so, Called Shots would not work (or at least they would target normal AC rather than touch).

Called Shots, the optional ruleset, is neither a feat nor an ability, and thus an attack by a firearm using it *would* be considered a touch attack?

[Nefreet]

Called shots require feats. There's a sidebar all about them in Ultimate Combat.

[Optimistic Cynic]

Nefreet wrote:

Called shots require feats. There's a sidebar all about them in Ultimate Combat.

While there are two feats that deal with Called Shots, Improved and Greater Called Shot, they are just feats that help your chances to hit. Simply making a Called Shot is an attack action I believe, and one anybody can make if the GM allows the ruleset. No feats needed. :)

[Nefreet]

*cracks open his copy of Ultimate Combat and slowly nods to himself*

Alrighty, so, when using either of those feats with a firearm, you'd still be able to target touch AC.

Nice incentive.